An Attempt by a Transphobe to Turn r/UnitarianUniversalist into a War Zone.

I moderate this subreddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnitarianUniversalist

And one of the things I and the other mods have to watch for are bigoted trolls trying to invade our space and cause trouble for us to promote a regressive agenda.

So one day a stranger butts in and posts this:

Anti UU lies3

Anti UU lies61

It took me several hours to deal with the problem, and by then there had been a massive uproar over it. After carefully reviewing the situation, I banned the intruder.

Later, I posted this:

Which prompted the troll to make an alt account and post this:

Both of the posts that were deleted were done so by him before I was going to do it. The reason I didn’t delete his filth immediately was because I wanted to make screenshots of his attacks to use as evidence against him later. So……

Anti UU lies56Anti UU lies57

Anti UU lies58

In all the cases, I and most of the others in the subreddit debunked the troll’s lies and total nonsense.

The troll also attacked me directly through the mod channels.
https://imgur.com/a/xMMteja

Gee, I wonder if that idiot was taking legal lessons from Wahid Azal. Just sayin’…….

Arrogance and Hatred on YouTube

Look at this video:

So this YouTuber, Nuxanor, is calling out another YouTuber, Mamamax, for the heinous offense of “pedojacking”, a form of defamation in which you falsely accuse a person of being a pedophile, something I know of all too well

Nuxanor (Nux for short), even apologizes for being friends with Mamamax and believing his lies.

But it seems that was not enough for some who commented about the video.

Nux, you need to apologize.
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It was obvious to me that most of those demanding that Nux apologize never saw the entire video (It’s over an hour long, so that may be understandable). So I decided to speak out.
 
It’s obvious that some of you never bothered to watch the whole video above, did you?! “Hey nux why haven’t you apologized to magnetar?” “Friendly reminder that Nux still has yet to apologize to magnetar (and probably never will)” “I love you and Muta but you should really apologize to magnetar this dude has his life ruined by max” Well….. 1:14:51That sounds like an apology, to MANY people. So cut the hating, dammit!
______________________________________________________________________________________
 
Indeed, an apology is an apology and you don’t get to decide that it is not because you don’t accept it. And who the fuk are these people to speak on behalf of Magnetar? Did Magnetar himself demand that Nuxanor give a direct, personal apology to him? If he did, then he should have made a comment on the video in question. But I didn’t see any such thing. So you know what those other users were doing? Virtue signaling, nothing more!
 
That became clear once I went after one of the haters to call her out on her attitude.
Apologize for WHAT?!
___________________________________________________________________
 @DaleHusband  For believing false accusations when there was no proof of any actual wrongdoings.
__________________________________________________________________________________
 @maylabrown4584  you might as well demand someone apologize for being religious. It seems that Nux BELIEVED Mamamax because they were friends, though with this video they clearly are not now. I would assume with this video, Nux IS apologizing.
_______________________________________________________________________
 @DaleHusband  No? Nux never apologized and that false equivalence is just stupid, believing in a religion is not the same as believing supposed sexual allegations. Go back to school.
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 @maylabrown4584  Your opinion is noted, on both issues. BTW, I’m atheist. I’m also forgiving of people that are willing to admit they were wrong and change course. I had to do that last year after the iilluminaughtii crap played out. Should I apologize for being her fan in the past? No, because she lied to me too. Also, being self-righteous helps no one.
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 @DaleHusband  I’m not being self-righteous and I’m an Agnostic so I don’t believe in any God either, I don’t see how that or you being an Atheist has to do with anything. It’s kind of cringe to just state out of the blue actually. Nux has not admitted he was wrong about Magnetar, he has only admitted to being wrong about Mamamax, he has not apologized either to Mamamax. You are not a YouTuber, you have no platform, but Nux is one and he used it to further false accusations on an innocent person. A Content Creator you happen to like being found to be a bad person is not the same as a Content Creator accusing another Control Creator of being a p*do, are you thinking before you type? To be clear, I’m replying clearly and concisely but using antagonistic wording to get across my frustration towards your faulty arguments, that does not lessen the point of my arguments in any way besides personal preference.
_____________________________________________________________
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Now she had crossed a serious ethical line!
 @maylabrown4584  Nux actually DID apologize in the video above, here:1:14:51If you choose not to accept that, so be it. But I despise people who come across as having some sort of superiority complex. WTF makes you think you can talk down to me, to Nux, or anyone else?
__________________________________________________________________
 @DaleHusband  That is not an apology whatsoever to Magnetar, he stated he’s sorry for anyone that got hate for what he said, he didn’t say sorry for what he said directly and to who it effected by his own actions. Just the actions of his fanbase, that’s like saying that I’m sorry that my car ended up hitting you, when I was the driver of the car in the first place. It’s half-assed as can be, no, a real direct apology is needed if he wants to actually be seen as someone aware of their wrongdoings and is open to doing better in the future. There is no superiority complex to asking someone to apologize for the very wrong action they did, it’s common sense. If you think stating clearly why you’re wrong is being talked down to then YOU’RE the one with the superiority complex. You are no one to not be called out on as wrong, neither is Nux and neither is anyone.
_______________________________________________________________________
@maylabrown4584  You did not prove me wrong about anything; you merely contradicted me. That’s why I call you arrogant. I was the one that showed an actual apology from him, that you chose not to be satisfied with.
___________________________________________________________________________
 @DaleHusband  I proved your points wrong numerous times at this point, from what an actual apology is and the absence of an apology that is present in this video despite that not being the case. To your usage of false equivalences such as a believer of religion being equated to someone who believed a false sexual allegations or you equating yourself being a former fan of another YouTuber that was exposed for bad actions to a YouTuber with a platform that spread severe allegations with no shred of evidence to support them. Contradicting you would be if I said that the (non-existent) apology wasn’t enough, but rather I’m saying that the apology doesn’t exist at all in the first place
___________________________________________________________________
 
@maylabrown4584  You clearly only want to double down on your arrogance instead of accepting with humility that people can have honest differences of opinion. That’s not and never will be my fault. You even had the audacity to say this nonsense to me: “You are not a YouTuber, you have no platform,” when in fact I do. My channel has: 412 subscribers ‧ 877 videos YOU on the other hand have only: 21 subscribers And NO content you uploaded on it. So I have shown that not only are you disagreeable as hell…..YOU ARE AN OUTRIGHT LIAR!
____________________________________________________________________________
 
I really can’t stand toxic people who are unable to admit to being wrong and only want to keep hating someone no matter what they do or say. 
There is a name for what those haters were doing.

Banned Permanently from Reddit!

Read this first:

Another unfair suspension from reddit!

I guess it was inevitable that Wahid Azal would find some other way to get me banned from reddit again, and this time forever.

Banned4

Banned1

Banned3 Banned2

So……I report Azal for violating reddit content policy and reddit bans ME and not him??? And provides me with NO explanation whatsoever for banning me?!

So this is it, apparently. I am DONE with this joke of a web community!

More Gaslighting from Wahid Azal and his Sidekick, Stephen Beyer

After I posted my last blog entry, I got this comment on it.

Another unfair suspension from reddit!

stephan paul beyer says:
 
 
I addressed this nonsense directly
 
Look, Stephen…..you and Wahid are the ones who live constantly in your delusional fantasy world (and I’m not just referring to your being Bayanis or others being Baha’is; I don’t care that much about PRIVATE religious beliefs as long as you LEAVE OTHERS THE HELL ALONE). Wahid was expelled from r/exbahai after he exposed himself (no pun intended) as far more of a liability than an asset to the exBaha’i cause. Credibility is everything to me and it is obvious to me that Wahid constantly makes up tons of totally baseless SHIT to get attention to himself, regardless of the damage he does to others or even himself! We simply can’t have people like him who constantly engage in slander, libel, defamation and misrepresentation of me, the other mods of r/exbahai, or others. Because if we tolerate that……then we only give support to Baha’is who claim we of r/exbahai spread “misinformation” about their Faith…..because that’s exactly what Wahid does for real! Since you keep supporting him, you are no better than him and you deserve the same fate as him. Goodbye and good riddance!
 
Making cheap shots at my creations is no way to have a discussion about them, asshole! You don’t even bother linking to the specific videos you refer to, so FUK OFF!
 
And then I banned him.
 
Shortly after that, he and Wahid teamed up to defame me again. And in doing so, Wahid exposed his own ignorance about my past dealings with assholes like him on the internet.
 
 

by 

does anyone want to tell him?

Seeker_Alpha1701 via r/exbahai sent 2 months ago

show parent

this is like claiming Muhammad claimed to be Gabriel or Allah because The Prophet quotes what they say.

You’ve never read the Quran, have you? Can you show us where Muhammad said, “I am Allah” ?

No, you can’t because the very idea of anyone, even a Messenger of God, claiming to be one with God himself is completely against Islam. That’s an idea that came from (the Trinitarian version of) Christianity. No wonder u/investigator919 thought you were arguing in bad faith (pun intended) and banned you!

____________________

i mean i cant read arabic. i can only read translations. so he is correct that i have never read the quran. but its pretty clear he did not comprehend whatever he thought he read. and perhaps only read commentary dismissing islam as a fundamentalist religion. he is so clueless that it hurts to even try to understand his viewpoint to refute it.

______________________

The Qurʾān generally styles itself as divine speech by employing the first person singular or plural (“I” or “we”) in statements that clearly refer to the Deity. However, this divine voice alternates with third-person statements about God. Utterances by Muhammad are normally introduced by the command “Say:…,” thus emphasizing that the Prophet is speaking on divine injunction only. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Quran
________________________
 

Gomer’s IR handlers have convinced him that theopathic claims are somehow unique to Babism and bahaism when it is actually at the core foundation of Islam itself, arguably expressly articulated within the Quran, and specifically and especially in Shiism, not to mention Sufism. These handlers are already bad faith actors misleading everyone as to their true agenda, but with Gomer they have so led him down the garden path in unbelievable ways that every time he puts finger to keyboard he reveals a little more of his ignorance. The fact that he comes from a Southern Baptist Protestant background doesn’t help matters either.

__________________

https://dalehusband.com/enemies-of-truth-and-justice/ how do i get on this list? i want to be an enemy of what he considers to be truth and what he considers justice. . .

_______________________
 

We’ve already made it on his list. Look at the bottom. The guy is so obsessed and unhinged he is doing us the service with his published rants. I’ve actually had people come to me after encountering his blog and tell me Dale is our best promoter yet, since there is no publicity like bad publicity, and once people carefully look at his rants and conniptions it just proves the opposite of what he says and gives us the credibility instead. So as the great Persian saying has it, “the enemy shall be the cause of good,”

عدو سبب خير شود

Furthermore, since Gomer is a terrible student of history, if he had only bothered to research a little bit about other individuals who have entangled with me on the same level as he has – like Paul Andrew Hammond once did – he would quickly discover that it never ends well for them. But he can’t believe that and has never encountered something like me before, so his obsessive-compulsion born from utter frustration just augments and accentuates from one day to the next and thereby plays into my hands until one fine day – just like Hammond before him – his balloon of hot air pops with a bang and permanently puts him in his place! I suspect this may have already happened to DBO on some level as well since he is hardly here anymore.

_________________________

Wow! Where do I start?

First, I have seen enough episodes of the YouTube channel Apple Texts and other such related channels over the past year to know that such blatant lies those two are telling about me, my blog and Islam must be rejected for the gaslighting they are. There is NO case in Islam of any genuine Prophet of God identifying himself as being the same as Allah’s essence. That is the very definition of blasphemy. Just because the early Christians came up with the Trinity to depict Jesus as being the same as “God the Son” doesn’t make it acceptable in any other religion. Islam explicitly rejects the Trinity and the Deity of Jesus or any other Messenger of God, full stop! Even the term “Manifestation of God” used by Baha’is to refer to Baha’u’llah, Jesus, Muhammad and other Messengers of God is foreign to Islam. Even as an atheist, I have enough respect for Islam not to misrepresent the religion and its teachings about Allah and His Messengers. Note that Wahid never showed a direct quote from the Quran to support his lies. 

Second, I have indeed dealt with narcissists, abusers and pathological liars like Wahid Azal before. I have seen the incredible amount of damage they can do if left unchecked, so maybe that explains my “obsession” with Wahid Azal now. 

Many years ago, I was a member of a web community called Care2, which was made to provide a place for liberals, progressives, and environmentalists to gather together and coordinate their efforts for their chosen causes. Sadly, many right-wingers, conservatives, and others opposed to liberals invaded that community and disrupted it over the years, claiming they were promoters of “free speech”. And the ringleader of those attackers was Jeffery Williams, who was almost exactly like Donald Trump in that he was narcissistic, arrogant and totally dishonest and treacherous. And he was also an ATHEIST. Williams finally was banned from Care2 and is now in prison for abusing homeless men for perverted entertainment purposes, but the damage to Care2 as a social site was already done.
 
Which eventually led to this:

And what happened to Jeffery Williams eventually?

https://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/two-to-be-sentenced-in-shefightsnet-fetish-beating-videos/2176069/

A judge gave prison sentences on Monday to two people behind an internet fetish video that showed a mentally disabled man being kicked and beaten.

Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge Keith Meyer sentenced Shefights.net producer and entrepreneur Jeffery Williams, 61, to seven years in prison. He gave performer Zuzu Vargo, 27, roughly three years in prison, plus three years’ probation.

Both defendants apologized in court. Vargo, in tears, said she did not know the man she was punching and kicking in the video was mentally impaired. She said others checked the men out before making the videos.

But, she said, “I shouldn’t have trusted the judgment of someone else. … I’m so sorry for all the trauma and distress.”

Williams also professed ignorance to the victim’s mental condition and said it was a key principle within the bondage-sadomasochism community that nobody inflicts more pain than a person wants to receive.

“We’re not in the business of hurting people … we’re in the business of a fantasy enactment for a certain subset of the population.” Williams added that, “I deeply regret the pain and the anguish that we caused.”

But Assistant State Attorney Susan St. John said the victim’s mental condition would have been obvious to Williams and Vargo. As an example of his functioning, she quoted the man’s explanation for why he’s scared of police: “Because they have guns and hats.”

Judge Meyer also said it was clear the man had a disability. According to evidence presented in court, the man was schizophrenic and off his medicine. He had left his group home, gotten lost for a month, stayed around Williams Park in St. Petersburg and eventually got recruited to appear in the Shefights video for about $50.

“I find it completely incredible that you would not have picked up within the first few seconds … how substantially he was impaired,” Meyer said.

And that, he said, made it a crime. He said if the victim had been a consenting adult, “we wouldn’t even be here today. Because people get to do what they want in this country.”

“I’m not passing judgment on your lifestyle one bit,” he added.

Vargo’s attorney Daniel Hernandez asked for a sentence below state guidelines, saying she had a dual diagnosis of substance abuse problems and mental health issues such as post-traumatic stress disorder and depression.

Meyer would not go below the guidelines but gave her less time than Williams: slightly more than three years in prison, plus three years of probation. During her probation, she must get mental health treatment.

The victim was not in court.

Prosecutors on Monday showed the video, although the judge already had seen it. The victim groaned and grunted as Vargo punched him in the ribs and face. He fell to the ground and she punched him more. She kicked him as well.

The sentencing on Monday follows a trial in December in which Williams and Vargo were convicted of aggravated abuse of a disabled adult, a first-degree felony with a maximum sentence of 30 years in prison. The sentencing completes that case, but it’s not the end for the two. They both face similar charges in a separate, pending case with a different victim.

And of course, there is the case of Donald Trump, who, along with many others, have finally been indicted for their crimes against America. His Presidency did a lot of damage to this country and its people, because of his own bigotries and of those who supported him. And he belongs in prison and certainly not in the White House ever again!

And what about yet another narcissist who has done incredible amounts of damage to others, iilluminaughtii? Like Azal, she constantly represents herself as an activist against corruption and for justice. But she is corrupt herself. Like Azal, she is a planet-sized hypocrite. I am not afraid of Trump, Jeffery Williams, iilluminaughtii, or Wahid Azal. They ALL should be stubbornly opposed by people who know what they have done and can do.

Finally, I googled the name “Paul Andrew Hammond” and found listings that say he died in December 2022. He was also listed as a police detective in San Antonio, Texas. Wahid Azal claimed he was a child pornographer about 14 years ago. How convenient for Azal that he can gloat over defeating this man now that he is dead, eh?  #coward

But I’m still alive and as long as I live, I will hold that monster and his idiot followers accountable for their bullshit. That’s what an ethical person does, period.

Another unfair suspension from reddit!

For the THIRD time, an account of mine in reddit was suspended for suspicious reasons.

The previous two incidents are documented here:

Suspended from reddit!

Wahid Azal strikes again!

And I NEVER got an explanation for what I did wrong. I had to figure that out on my own.

And this time, on August 15 of this year…….

from reddit[A]

Rule Violation: Temporarily Banned for Harassment

You’ve been banned for seven days by the Reddit admin team for violating Reddit’s rule against harassment in the following content.

Reddit is a place for creating community and belonging, not for harassing or bullying people. We don’t tolerate any behaviors that discourage others from participating in communities, conversations, or the Reddit platform through harassment, bullying, intimidation, or abuse. Any communities or people that incite or engage in harassment or abuse towards an individual or group will be banned.

To avoid future bans, make sure you read and understand Reddit’s Content Policy, including what’s considered harassment.

If you use Reddit with a different account and continue to harass, or if you’re reported for any further violations of Reddit’s Content Policy after your seven-day ban, additional actions including permanent banning may be taken against your account(s).

If you feel like your content didn’t break the rules, you can file an appeal any time within the next six months and we’ll take a second look.

-Reddit Admin Team

I then tried to get an explanation and only got:

from reddit[A]

Thanks for submitting an appeal to the Reddit admin team. We have reviewed your request and unfortunately, your appeal will not be granted and your suspension will remain in place.

For future reference, we recommend you to familiarize yourself with Reddit’s Content Policy.

-Reddit Admin Team

In short, don’t question what we did because you deserve nothing but our contempt! That’s not an ethical way to enforce rules, period.

I do have an idea of what happened, though.

On August 13, some lunatic posted this shit in r/UnitarianUniversalist, a subreddit I mod.

Red flag experience at service

So I was attending my first UU Sunday service and was seated in an awfully big hall considering there was only 5 of us there, including the minister and piano player. I later asked during morning tea why the church was so empty, and the minister explained that the congregation used to be overwhelming atheists and agnostic, but the minister I was speaking to was a conservative who believed Unitarianism to be an exclusively protestant form of Christianity, and so expelled all the humanist because they were going to “takeover the place”. I was dumbstruck upon hearing this considering UU has the reputation as “the most liberal denomination of Christianity”. It was especially awkward considering I’m a secular pagan who believes Yeshua was merely a mortal philosopher. On top of this, this white minister complained that schools in my city were “completely Chinese now” WHILE SITTING NEXT TO, AND EATING FOOD MADE BY, CHINESE PEOPLE. I feel really guilty I didn’t say anything then, and feel so unlucky considering this is the only other UU congregation in my entire country except one on the other side of it. Oh well, looks like I’ll just have to worship at my shrine again…

This stirred up a lot of controversy and once I became aware of it, I rushed to end it.

An actual UU minister CANNOT expel most members of a congregation…..the congregation itself hires and fires the minister and directs the affairs of the church via its board as well as congregational meetings every few months or so.
This all sounds suspicious to me, so I will be locking up this thread until I get some specific answers from the OP. I don’t believe anything I just read up there!
______________
I then deleted the offensive post and sent a warning to the offender.
Explain yourself! Why did you tell that obvious pack of LIES in my UU subreddit, you pathetic troll! HOW DARE YOU!!!
_____________
Could THAT have been the harassment the reddit admin was referring to? Others have done far worse things to me and gotten away with their crap! And don’t I have a right to protect my reddit community from trolls and liars?
Speaking of crap, shortly after I was banned, this appeared in r/exbahai…..
u/trident765
According to your suggestive comments on this post https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/comments/15qgbny/comment/jwim17e/ you abandoned Haifan bahaism for UU bahaism because you couldn’t find a woman. But UU bahaism is primarily an online phenomenon of mainly white liberal men with either homoerotic tendencies or outright gay. If what drives you is to find a woman, do you think that maybe you have fallen from the frying pan into the fire in switching your allegiance by narrowing your pool of choices to virtually nothing?
Also, why do you say American women “hate” Iranian men? I dated tons of white American women during the ’90s. Nothing serious with most of them, which was my own choice. But “hatred” is a bit too outlandish a characterization of the American female’s sentiments towards the Iranian male. I personally found the opposite to be the case and broke several hearts in the process. Ask yourself, if the white American female across the board picked men on the basis of phenotype, then why are there so many white-as-caspar women out there who are with black, Latino, east Asian, Arab and other men with darker skin? In fact, other than economics and finance, if there was ever to be a fair competition between white men and black men on the basis of physicality alone, the black man would win the competition against the white man every single time with his eyes blindfolded and his hands tied behind his back! On the basis of sex appeal, the white northern European male can never fairly compete with the darker, Mediterranean, Middle Eastern and African male for the white female. Go ask white women this question yourself, if you don’t believe me, hence why the white male as a type will always go out of his way to undermine the darker or black male because she would rather couple with him than the endless versions of Gomer out there!
My observation of you is that you appear to have a serious self-confidence problem and are attempting to compensate for that with religion, and UU bahaism in particular. But what doesn’t make sense is that the Iranian male is usually raised by their mother to believe they are, as Max Amini once hilariously put it, a doodool-talaa (golden dicked) https://youtu.be/lQmJlw483eE. Most Iranian men carry themselves throughout a lifetime often with delusionalover-confidence believing they are the king of the world! With women and courting, however, this appears to help since most Iranian men – whether in Iran or beyond it – are usually fighting the women off for their attention. But you don’t seem to have that, so one has to ask about your parents and specifically their parenting of you as an Iranian male living in the USA.
That aside, I think your problem may not be the white American female at all, but rather yourself, your expectations, your overall programming and possibly your environment, not to mention your adherence to a toxic creed that is literally dying and whose wheels have already come off everywhere and in all versions. You said you are planning to go to Colombia to find a significant other. Let me tell you, if you don’t sort yourself out, your experience will be no different in Colombia than in the USA, and from the sounds of it you don’t seem to have an iota of wisdom regarding the female gender whatsoever but have pigeonholed yourself into a paradigmatic redpill fallacy about them. That is really the core of your problem, and until you fix that, prepare to be single for a very long time!
____________________
That was obviously posted by Wahid Azal, who was responsible for my last two suspensions. Coincidence?!
Fortunately, investigator919 removed that post and banned Azal again.
Meanwhile, in Facebook, a friend of mine gave me this advice after I announced my suspension from reddit:
Azal has no hand in Reddit management. He but can make you angry and then you use words which will cause you go out!
__________________
So attempting to expose Wahid’s past bad acts got my original account suspended twice and permanently because what I linked to happened to include a reference to his original name. And sending a warning to a troll got my current account suspended too.
Frankly, I am surprised reddit has as many users as it does. The way it enforces its rules is not conductive to making things better for people who make honest mistakes due to ignorance.
Fortunately, my suspension is now over and so I came back ROARING!

Wahid Azal Goes on Another Childish Rampage

It’s been known for years that both DavidBinOwen and Wahid Azal have been “ban evaders” in reddit, meaning they would create many sockpuppet accounts to try to infiltrate and disrupt the discussions in r/exbahai long after they were banned from it. These have been documented on the following blog entries:

Recently, Wahid has been making many, many, MANY accounts for the purpose of harassment of us.

We first noticed this here:

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist
 
Are you referring to the various Baha’i houses of worship that have been built around the world? They are indeed known to have nine sides to them….a design that is impractical as hell.
 
On a related note, I have yet to see arguments regarding the Bab or his teachings that make him look any more credible or appealing than, say, Adolph Hitler or Charles Manson. I mean, they had followers and became world famous, with scholars researching their supposed mental states and their rises and downfalls, but beyond that, who cares? They’re both dead and their perverted movements should have died with them, obviously. Good riddance.

_____________________________________

SayfAllahQuddusiyah

One day, God willing, we will say this very thing about America and its faux-liberalism which built itself atop slavery, genocide of natives, resource theft, white supremacy, and the death of millions around the world.

The Primal Point and His relevance will outlive the dominance of you arrogant white liberal Anglo-American honkies. Take it to the bank!

____________________

Seeker_Alpha1701

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

Of course, I’m not falling for that crap.

__________________________

SayfAllahQuddusiyah

No redd herring there. A statement of fact. Get your logical fallacies right without recourse to wackopedia.

___________________

The Bab was mentally ill. Almost everything he wrote was strange. Even Baha’i scholars find it incomprehensible.

________________

 
SayfAllahQuddusiyah

Only two types of people make such a statement: 1) Shiite seminarians and/or IR regime apologists and 2) biased individuals with no knowledge of either classical Arabic or 1200 years of Islamic literary developments. If your understanding of the Bab was filtered through warped Baha’i lenses that is no reflection on actual facts. If your understanding of the Bab is filtered through biased Shiite establishmentarian lenses that is no reflection on the facts either. Scholars such as E.G. Browne, A-L-M Nicolas, Arthur Gobinueau, Todd Lawson, Denis MacEoin, Stephan Lambden, etc, were and are all fascinated by him and have spent a considerable period of their lives studying Him and the writings He composed in only a 6 year period. For an Englishman and then a Frenchman to learn classical Arabic and Persian – such as Browne and Nicolas – in order to get access to the Bab’s writings in the original says your observation is ignorant, way off, totally misplaced, and is no reflection on any facts. For a Frenchman like Nicolas to meticulously translate several of the Bab’s major works over a 30-year period, says the Bab’s works have deep appeal – and far more than the mediocrities of Haba’. Those who find Him strange do so because they have not the slightest comprehension of the deep mysticism behind it, or otherwise possess an ideological axe to grind, such as the mullahs and their supporters. Furthermore, if everything He wrote was strange, as you say, thousands wouldn’t have been galvanized to take up arms in His name against the corrupt and parasitic Qajar state, aristocracy and clergy which you regularly like to defend in a typically knee-jerk reactionary, rightwing British kind of way.

As for the charge of mental illness: an Irish doctor in the employ of the British legation found no such evidence. Nevertheless it is a common tactic of slander and defamation normalized specifically by the Anglo-Saxon – who themselves are the greatest psychotic sociopaths and murderers history has ever witnessed – to dismiss a figure such as the Bab or similar with the label as a smokescreen in order not to have to address matters or deal with serious issues.

_________________
The chief mod of this subreddit responded to SucessfulCorner2512:
 

I double this.

_______________________

SayfAllahQuddusiyah

Of course you would. I say the Ayatollah Khomeini was a dangerous clinical sociopath and bloodthirsty psychotic that the Pahlavis should’ve executed when they had the chance. The memories of his lifelong student Ayatollah Montazeri and others confirms it. I also say that Khamenei and his son Mojtaba are likewise dangerous clinical sociopaths and criminal psychotics, and that any Iranian who puts them away is a literal Kaveh, the Blacksmith, of the times. What do you say to that?

________________

I couldnt care less. Regardless, the Bab was mentaly ill.
____________________

And you are a cyber-basiji in the employ of the cyber-army of the IRI. Moreover, you are not an Iranian as your style of written Persian proves (where you are also denounced by other Iranians for being a shill):

https://www.reddit.com/r/iranian/comments/zekepg/shopkeepers_across_iran_take_part_in_mass_walkouts/ize17mn/?context=3

This by you below is also not any formal or idiomatic style of composition in Persian:

دهنتو ببند حرف اضافی نزن

آخر توهمین شماها. نفهم میگم اینجا اینترنت اوکی بوده خودم داشتم با اینترنت کار می کردم آخرش میای فحش ناموس بدی که توهمتو قالب کنی به من.

You are obviously either a Pakistani or Indian, and no Iranian.

كثافت سگ بسيجى

__________________

Using Google Translate, the Persian passages read in English:

Shut your mouth, don’t talk too much.

The end of your illusions. I don’t understand, the internet is ok here. I was working with the internet myself. Finally, you come to insult me and cast your illusion on me.

Basiji dog litter

Looks like real Persian words to me. Also, what would be the point of anyone NOT an Iranian serving the intelligence agencies of Iran by moderating a subreddit against the Baha’i Faith and defending Iran all over the place? Instead of, you know, serving his own country?

Also, I have lived in Texas all my life, but I have never spoken with a “Texan” accent (which is actually a myth, BTW). Azal’s claim against investigator919 is like someone saying I have no right to be called a Texan because I don’t speak a certain way. Since Azal lives in Australia and not Iran, his claim is just bullshit. He doesn’t know any more about how present day Iranians use Persian than I do.

Burying the believer in a crystal coffin is interesting. I’m not sure how one would acquire the funds to do that unless the person was already wealthy to begin with. I think there is another one that says a non-Babi spouse is to have all of their possessions stolen by their Babi partner if they don’t convert to the religion.

I think a lot of the Babi Laws were meant to be symbolic to some degree. Given that we are so used to the Baha’i organization doing everything it can to distance itself from its Islamic roots, it is easy to forget that the Babi religion was founded during a time of “spiritual mania”. I think the Bab felt like he had to sound “tough” to stand up to people who would try to bully and persecute his followers, but that’s just my speculation.

____________________

SayfAllahQuddusiyah

No such law in the Bayan. You have confused Haba’s law in the aqdas that non-Baha’i family do not inherit with another law in the Bayan. The Bayan instead says that non-believers are to be disenfranchised of their property under a Bayani state/kingdom unless they convert because only believers in the Bayan are to reside in a Bayani state/kingdom (which is only inclusive of the five provinces constituting Iran and Iraq). At the same time it makes it a sin to dispossess any individual of their home or place of residence and prohibits forced conversions to the Bayan.

And, no, none of these laws were meant to be symbolic. Symbolic of what, exactly?

______________

So I went after him:

 

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

I think he is lying to you, not correcting.

In 2017, I did a critical analysis of the Kitab-i-Aqdas from start to finish. The part dealing with inheritance was explored here:

https://dalehusband.com/2017/08/28/a-critical-analysis-of-the-kitab-i-aqdas-part-two/

Here is everything the Aqdas says about inheritance:

We have divided inheritance into seven categories: to the children, We have allotted nine parts comprising five hundred and forty shares; to the wife, eight parts comprising four hundred and eighty shares; to the father, seven parts comprising four hundred and twenty shares; to the mother, six parts comprising three hundred and sixty shares; to the brothers, five parts or three hundred shares; to the sisters, four parts or two hundred and forty shares; and to the teachers, three parts or one hundred and eighty shares. Such was the ordinance of My Forerunner, He Who extolleth My Name in the night season and at the break of day. When We heard the clamor of the children as yet unborn, We doubled their share and decreased those of the rest. He, of a truth, hath power to ordain whatsoever He desireth, and He doeth as He pleaseth by virtue of His sovereign might.

Should the deceased leave no offspring, their share shall revert to the House of Justice, to be expended by the Trustees of the All-Merciful on the orphaned and widowed, and on whatsoever will bring benefit to the generality of the people, that all may give thanks unto their Lord, the All-Gracious, the Pardoner.

Should the deceased leave offspring, but none of the other categories of heirs that have been specified in the Book, they shall receive two-thirds of the inheritance and the remaining third shall revert to the House of Justice. Such is the command which hath been given, in majesty and glory, by Him Who is the All-Possessing, the Most High.

If the deceased should leave none of the specified heirs, but have among his relatives nephews and nieces, whether on his brother’s or his sister’s side, two-thirds of the inheritance shall pass to them; or, lacking these, to his uncles and aunts on both his father’s and his mother’s side, and after them to their sons and daughters. The remaining third of the inheritance shall, in any case, revert to the Seat of Justice. Thus hath it been laid down in the Book by Him Who ruleth over all men.

Should the deceased be survived by none of those whose names have been recorded by the Pen of the Most High, his estate shall, in its entirety, revert to the aforementioned Seat that it may be expended on that which is prescribed by God. He, verily, is the Ordainer, the Omnipotent.

We have assigned the residence and personal clothing of the deceased to the male, not female, offspring, nor to the other heirs. He, verily, is the Munificent, the All-Bountiful.

Should the son of the deceased have passed away in the days of his father and have left children, they will inherit their father’s share, as prescribed in the Book of God. Divide ye their share amongst them with perfect justice. Thus have the billows of the Ocean of Utterance surged, casting forth the pearls of the laws decreed by the Lord of all mankind.

If the deceased should leave children who are under age, their share of the inheritance must be entrusted to a reliable individual, or to a company, that it may be invested on their behalf in trade and business until they come of age. The trustee should be assigned a due share of the profit that hath accrued to it from being thus employed.

Division of the estate should take place only after the Ḥuqúqu’lláh hath been paid, any debts have been settled, the expenses of the funeral and burial defrayed, and such provision made that the deceased may be carried to his resting-place with dignity and honor. Thus hath it been ordained by Him Who is Lord of the beginning and the end.

There is a lot to criticize, but the specific reference to “that non-Baha’i family do not inherit” is not one of them…..indeed, I found no such distinction anywhere in the Aqdas, or I would have commented on it somewhere in my blog entry series on the subject. Here is the entire list:

https://dalehusband.com/bahai-writings-criticism/

Meanwhile we have this from the con artist above.

No such law in the Bayan……..The Bayan instead says that non-believers are to be disenfranchised of their property under a Bayani state/kingdom unless they convert because only believers in the Bayan are to reside in a Bayani state/kingdom (which is only inclusive of the five provinces constituting Iran and Iraq).

Which is a distinction without a difference. Much like saying the Bayan does not command the destruction of books but does call for them to be erased. Really?

So this dingbat opposes the tyranny of the Islamic Republic of Iran and even the corrupt democracy of the USA, but thinks a Bayani republic that denies non-Babis the right to own property and censors non-Babi books is acceptable?!

____________________

Later:

agnostic exBaha’i
 
That Babi’s were forbidden to ask questions, his edicts to burn all non-religious books, that believers should give him priceless gifts…
 
These are things that are common knowledge among Baha’is as well as exBaha’is. But just as moon landing denialists can’t stand the idea that we actually sent men to the moon for some reason, Wahid Azal can’t stand the obvious point that the Bab was a lunatic……..because he himself is one too!
 

SayfAllahQuddusiyah

No such law, and given the massive amount of literary output by the Bab in only a 6 short year period, this decisively proves that He never forbade questions. What He specifically forbade was asking “why” (lima) and “wherefore” (bima) of He whom God shall make Manifest when He appears, i.e. interrogating Him, and this ordinance exists due to the bitter personal experience of the Bab when He arrived in Bushire from the hajj and subsequently when under custody because the subtext of this ordinance is not to treat He whom God shall make Manifest the way the Shi’ite mullahs and their supporters treated Him. Contrary to the mullahs who regularly practiced book burning (as they still do), especially of the writings of their rivals and critics, there is no law in the Bayan to burn non-religious books or books or any written material of any kind. In fact the very opposite. The effacement or destruction of any written material is explicitly forbidden in the Bayan per gate 13 of the 9th Unity:

أنتم أبدا كتابا لا تخرقون

You are not to destroy any book [or any piece of writing, since in Arabic kitab/book in the accusative and indefinite case can refer to a book or any other piece of written material] under any circumstance!”

https://bayanic.com/lib/fwd/ABayan/ABayan-FWD.html

The claim originates with Haba’ and his son which has been uncritically repeated by the Shiite mullahs and their supporters (like u/Investigator919), and now clueless and confused secular Anglo-European ex-Bahais as well. So either no such law exists in the Bayan and the Baha’i founder and his son lied – as the textual evidence explicitly proves – or there is confusion about two different laws. In the 6th gate of the 6th Unity of the Bayan, the Bab says to efface all previous scriptures; meaning, to cease allowing the scriptural books of previous dispensations to act in any form as a centerpiece in a subsequent dispensation, which He explicitly glosses as such in the Persian Bayan. However, this has nothing to do with the physical destruction of any book or scriptural text, not to mention it explicitly echoes a verse of the Qur’an (13:39):

يَمْحُو اللَّهُ مَا يَشَاءُ وَيُثْبِتُ ۖ وَعِندَهُ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ

God effaces what He/It wills and establishes/confirms [what He/It wills]! And with It/Him is the Mother of the Book!

As well as the second theophanic sequence of the hadith kumayl (which acts as a proof-text to everything the Bab contextualizes):

محو الموهوم و صحو المعلوم

The effacement of supposition/conjecture and the realization of the Known!

As matter of fact, even though Abbas Effendi propagated this slur of Babi book burning, it was in fact Baha’is who went out of their way around the world to destroy and/or efface copies of the Leiden edition of nuqtat’ul-kaf by E.G. Browne when it was published. Abbas Effendi even ordered the Baha’is to do so. In fact, I know of Baha’is in the past 30 years who went around public libraries throughout the United States and effaced or stole from shelves and then destroyed copies of William M. Miller’s The Baha’i Faith: Its History and Teachings. So the destruction of books is in fact a practice literally engaged in by Baha’is themselves.

As for giving priceless gifts to the Point: again, this ordinance relates to He whom God shall make Manifest, and what exactly the problem is with this ordinance, is anyone’s guess.

What a ridiculous load of mental gymnastics!

First:

given the massive amount of literary output by the Bab in only a 6 short year period, this decisively proves that He never forbade questions.

That’s actually a non sequitur. Someone could write a dozen novels and yet never respond to a single letter written to him by a fan of his writing.

The claim originates with [Baha’u’llah] and his son which has been uncritically repeated by the Shiite mullahs and their supporters (like u/Investigator919), and now clueless and confused secular Anglo-European ex-Bahais as well. So either no such law exists in the Bayan and the Baha’i founder and his son lied – as the textual evidence explicitly proves – or there is confusion about two different laws.

This is also nonsense. I would later show exactly why.

The idea that Baha’u’llah so blatantly lied about the Bayan to justify abrogating it doesn’t hold up for one simple reason: In Baha’u’llah’s time, nearly all the Baha’is were former Bayanis and thus they would have had access to the Bayan to see if there were such laws for Baha’u’llah to abrogate. There would have been no need for Baha’u’llah to abrogate anything from the Bayan if those laws were anything reasonable like that claimed above. Baha’u’llah was engaging in one form of “damage control”, while the lying commenter was doing another form, but both should be rejected.

It’s a bit like a neo-Nazi claiming today, “Hitler never wanted to exterminate the Jews; he just wanted them out of Europe.” So what the fuck were all those concentration camps for?!

__________________

 
Neither Gomer, Interrogator919 and their alter ego SuccessfulCorner2512 or MirzaIRI_Jan appear to read classical Arabic (or French, for that matter) and so rely on either garbled English translations by Peter Terry (from Nicolas’ original French) or material put out by IRI outfits or material by MacEoin and others, but deliberately taken out of context. However, I have offered links to the text of the Arabic Bayan itself:
  1. The autograph in the hand of the Bab Himself: https://www.academia.edu/36798591/Codex_Arabic_Bay%C4%81n_pdf

  2. The Azali lithograph edition from the autograph (whose editor’s preamble was translated by me from Persian to English for Bayanic.com): https://bayanic.com/lib/fwd/ABayan/ABayan-FWD.html

  3. The INBA 43 text (a Baha’i publication): https://www.h-net.org/~bahai/diglib/INBA/INBA043.pdf

  4. Muslim anti-Babi polemicist `Abd al-Razzaq al-Hasani’s typescript edition: https://www.h-net.org/~bahai/areprint/bab/A-F/b/bayana/bayana.htm

Those who assert must prove! So Gomer and his IRI handlers must prove on the prima facie evidence of the text of the Arabic Bayan itself that 1) the Bayan commands book burning, 2) that the Bayan commands building 9-sided houses, 3) that the Bayan disallows the asking of questions and 4) that the Bayan commands that priceless gifts be given to the Bab. I have already proven 1) to be a lie since the 13the gate of the 9th Unity clearly states:

أنتم أبدا كتابا لا تخرقون

You are not to destroy anybookwhatsoever/under any circumstance!”

https://bayanic.com/lib/fwd/ABayan/ABayan-FWD.html

* Or any piece of writing, since in Arabic kitab/book in the accusative and indefinite case can refer to a book or any other piece of written material.

Gomer and his IR handlers have skirted around this question for 4 straight years without ever offering a single piece of credible evidence or rebuttal. Instead, like the professional propagandists and gaslighting censors that they are, they have dug in their heels every time and continued to repeat themselves with the same inane talking points as before over and over again.

Finally, I will go on record and say that the clear evidence proves Interrogator919 to be a dyed in the wool and classic Shi’ite Muslim fundamentalist anti-Babi BIGOT and his sock-puppet Gomer a textbook SOCIOPATH for actually following this person. I have proven my case and the facts speak for themselves. Gomer has once again proven himself as a know-nothing and arrogant Pyle-of-Merde!

______________________

But I wasn’t going to let that con artist off the hook! Looking through all those links, I expected to find an English version of the Bayan from a reputable scholar that would confirm Azal’s claims.  Instead, I only found Arabic copies of pages of the Bayan with no translations and therefore NO way for a skeptic like me to verify anything Azal was saying. I knew then that I was merely being set up for more verbal abuse.

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist
And…..every link in that comment above leads to NOTHING that supports your claims…..and yes, I clicked on all four of them. So you fail yet again to prove anything.
 
Again, if it is true that Baha’u’llah so blatantly misrepresented the Bayan in the Kitab-i-Aqdas, then he should have lost nearly all his followers after the latter book came out. Imagine if Jesus said, “my followers need no longer obey the Torah’s commandment to circumcise newborn boys.” Would it have been reasonable for a Jew to say, “There is no such law in the Torah, Moses has been misquoted”? Jesus himself would simply crack open the Torah, point to the actual references in question, and thus prove the Jew a liar. The only way your claims make sense is if the Bayanis and Baha’is in Baha’u’llah’s time did not have any copies of the Bayan to confirm what Baha’u’llah taught. If they didn’t, why the hell did the Bab write it for, if not for his followers to read and obey?
 
Ironically, it is exactly because most of us here don’t know Arabic that you thought you could fool us with your lies. You really need to give up this useless game…..you simply can’t win because reality doesn’t agree with you.
_______________________
Later….
 
Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist
Why would Baha’u’llah abrogate laws of the Bayan that never existed? Why didn’t Sub-i-Azal take advantage of the situation to completely discredit his brother and prove once and for all that he was right? You can’t answer that, can you?
 
I don’t tolerate it when Baha’i “historians” like Adib Taherzadeh publish made up shit that they insist is true, so why should YOU be given a free pass?
_________________
He tried to evade that argument, so I kept after him.
 
 

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

You keep forgetting that I am an atheist with no loyalty to Iran. I, MirzaJan and investigator919 all oppose the Baha’i Faith, so we are partners in that. And we thought you were one too. Instead, you betrayed us with lies and backstabbing.

But we also know that it all started with the Bab and IT SHOULD HAVE ENDED WITH HIM in 1850. It was Baha’u’llah who revived the Babi community and then replaced the Bab’s teachings with his own. He never would have been able to do that if the former Bayanis rejected him for lying about the Bayan and turned instead to Sub-i-Azal. You know this. The surest way to discredit the Baha’i Faith is to strike at its very root. Which is the Bab, since Baha’u’llah was once his follower.

The Bab claimed to be the return of the Mahdi. TRUE OR FALSE?

The Shias expected the Mahdi to overthrow the enemies of Islam. TRUE OR FALSE?

The Bab was gunned down in 1850 after his followers were defeated in battle. TRUE OR FALSE?

If I am to EVER believe in the Bab and the Bayani teachings, then at least ONE of those premises must be established as FALSE. SO WHICH IS IT?

___________________
  1. Indeed, the Primal Point declared Himself the Qaim and Mahdi.

  2. What the Shias expected is not necessarily what the prophecies say or what they even mean, especially in light of the central Shiite doctrine of al-bada’ (the alteration of the divine plans) which is also a core doctrine of the Bayan itself.

  3. The Primal Point was indeed martyred and the early believers of the Bayan massacred by the combined state-clergy pogrom unleashed against them. But those who survived went on to actively work against the Qajar dynasty which they overthrew in the early 20th century. The destruction of the power of the Shiite clergy is still a work in progress and is now starting to bear fruit, and we will succeed in permanently cutting the power of those tyre-heads and their allies to size for good! When we do, the Babi Revolution will be complete.

____________________________

Why would Baha’u’llah abrogate laws of the Bayan that never existed?

Simple, because he was anti-Bayani all along as the evidence of Avarih in the first volume of his Kashfúl-Hil unequivocally proved: Haba’ denounced the Bab at his interrogation in the presence Mirza Agha Khan Nuri (a distant kinsman and the prime minister of Iran at the time) after the failed assassination on Nasiruddin Shah in the summer of 1852 (Avarih quotes directly from government archives of the interrogation). Second, because at the time the complete Bayani corpus was few and far between and in the hands of a very few people (because if these texts were ever found by authorities, they would be destroyed and the person in whose possession they were, killed), even well into the 1890s. So Haba’ took advantage of this situation and said whatever he wanted to say about the Bayan – and did! Why do you think E.G. Browne amassed so many Babi texts and catalogued them with Cambridge University? Because otherwise this history would have probably been lost given that both fundamentalist Shi’ites and Baha’is went out of their way to try to destroy it.

Why didn’t Sub-i-Azal take advantage of the situation to completely discredit his brother and prove once and for all that he was right?

He did! In tome after tome after tome of text – and he wasn’t the only one. Your problem is that you cannot access any of this material and have such a partial grasp of the historiography and texts that it is not even worth anyone’s time to teach you anything, nor have you demonstrated any interest in learning anything since your logic appears to be based on confirmation bias. In that respect, atheist or not, you are exactly like the Baha’is or fundamentalist Shi’ites.

_________________

I was getting close to nailing that fraud, so I kept up the pressure.

 

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

[[[Haba’ denounced the Bab at his interrogation in the presence Mirza Agha Khan Nuri (a distant kinsman and the prime minister of Iran at the time) after the failed assassination on Nasiruddin Shah]]]

Aren’t Shias allowed to deny their own beliefs in public to avoid persecution? Appearantly that’s what Baha’u’llah did. Too bad it didn’t help him.

[[[In tome after tome after tome of text – and he wasn’t the only one.]]]

Then Sub-i-Azal should have won and there should be NO Baha’i Faith today. The Bayani Faith should be the world religion instead. He failed and therefore so must you!

___________________

Aren’t Shias allowed to deny their own beliefs in public to avoid persecution? Appearantly that’s what Baha’u’llah did. Too bad it didn’t help him.
Whatever. But the fact that he denounced the Point of the Bayan makes his entire claim disingenuous with him revealed as a complete asshole!
 
Then Sub-i-Azal should have won and there should be NO Baha’i Faith today.
Is this how you believe the world works? You aren’t really that naive as 50+ year old, are you? That the righteous prevail?! You got Donald Trump as president in 2016 – and may yet get him again in 2024 – in an election he actually lost in the popular vote (on top of Russian meddling). You got George W. Bush as president in an election in 2000 which he also lost to Al Gore. History is riddled with bad guys winning and prevailing over the good, and especially in the realm of religion and religious movements, like the example of Jesus himself or Imam Husayn (as) whom your handler claims to believe in.
____________________

Seeker_Alpha1701

[[[ My agenda is simply to set the record straight and take the Bayan out of the hands of bahais who have held it hostage and the misrepresentations of fundamentalist anti-Babi Shiites who have uncritically repeated canards originated by bahais.]]]

That’s nonsense! If the Shias have access to the Bayan, they don’t need any input from Baha’is, do they?

[[[1. Indeed, the Primal Point declared Himself the Qaim and Mahdi. 2. What the Shias expected is not necessarily what the prophecies say or what they even mean, especially in light of the central Shiite doctrine of al-bada’ (the alteration of the divine plans) which is also a core doctrine of the Bayan itself.]]]

Bada was also the same bullshit argument the Hands of the Cause of God used to justify the Baha’i community continuing without a Guardian after Shoghi Effendi died. So why aren’t you a Haifan Baha’i?

[[[3. The Primal Point was indeed martyred and the early believers of the Bayan massacred by the combined state-clergy pogrom unleashed against them. But those who survived went on to actively work against the Qajar dynasty which they overthrew in the early 20th century. The destruction of the power of the Shiite clergy is still a work in progress and is now starting to bear fruit, and we will succeed in permanently cutting the power of those tyre-heads and their allies to size for good! When we do, the Babi Revolution will be complete.]]]

You mean the SECULAR revolution. How can a Babi revolution happen in Iran when it’s just you representing the Babi cause?

_____________________

That’s nonsense! If the Shias have access to the Bayan, they don’t need any input from Baha’is, do they?

Then why do they keep repeating Baha’i arguments and citing Baha’i texts, and never the Bayan itself?

Bada was also the same bullshit argument the Hands of the Cause of God used to justify the Baha’i community continuing without a Guardian after Shoghi Effendi died. So why aren’t you a Haifan Baha’i?

Stupid argument. Again, al-Bada is a core Shi’ite doctrine and is confirmed in the Bayan. WTF does this have to do with being or not being a Haifan Bahai just because a bunch of self-appointed CEOs cited it in 1957? Lame.

You mean the SECULAR revolution. How can a Babi revolution happen in Iran when it’s just you representing the Babi cause?

No, I mean the Babi Revolution, since anti-clericalism in Iran began with us. What outer form it solidifies as when it fructifies is secondary. We began the whole thing. The end of the mullahs will be our ship finally brought to port. QED

Right……but what if the secular republic that replaces the Islamic state legalizes the Baha’i Faith? Azal would go ballistic over that! LOL!

_________________

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist
 
[[[Then why do they keep repeating Baha’i arguments and citing Baha’i texts, and never the Bayan itself?]]]
 

investigator919

Since most if not all the readers of this sub do not understand Arabic or Persian, without delving into the semantics, it suffices to say both translations literally agree on one thing: were the Bab come to power books and writings would only be limited to what the Bab said or approved. Good luck promoting these beliefs.

“Chapter six of the sixth unit which is about destroying all books but those that have been written or will be written about this Order (meaning the Bab’s creed). (The Bāb, Farsi Bayān, unit 6, chap. 6.)”

The sixth gate of the Sixth Unity. Regarding the ordinance [ḥukm] of the erasure [maḥw] of all books, all of them, except what has emerged or will arise in this Cause.

[[[Stupid argument. Again, al-Bada is a core Shi’ite doctrine and is confirmed in the Bayan. WTF does this have to do with being or not being a Haifan Bahai just because a bunch of self-appointed CEOs cited it in 1957? Lame.]]]

It just illustrates your inconsistency…….You accept Bada when it suits you and reject it when it doesn’t. I deny Bada in ALL its versions. If there are ANY contradictions in the teachings of a religion, IT IS NOT TRUE!

And then came the final and ultimate discrediting of that idiot:

Seeker_Alpha1701

[[What would have resolved the debate in his favor would be an English translation of the Bayan made by a scholar such as Edward Granville Browne that states exactly what Azal claims.]]

I assumed there WERE such translations already, so why did you not present one of them instead? You didn’t, so I concluded you were just playing mind games all along. Because you did that to us before, of course.

___________________

 
 
Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist
 
So first the con artist says:
 
[[[One day, God willing, we will say this very thing about America and its faux-liberalism which built itself atop slavery, genocide of natives, resource theft, white supremacy, and the death of millions around the world.
 
The Primal Point and His relevance will outlive the dominance of you arrogant white liberal Anglo-American honkies. Take it to the bank!]]]
 
And then:
 
[[[The destruction of the power of the Shiite clergy is still a work in progress and is now starting to bear fruit, and we will succeed in permanently cutting the power of those tyre-heads and their allies to size for good! When we do, the Babi Revolution will be complete.]]]
 
But later:
 
[[[Is this how you believe the world works? You aren’t really that naive as 50+ year old, are you? That the righteous prevail?! You got Donald Trump as president in 2016 – and may yet get him again in 2024 – in an election he actually lost in the popular vote (on top of Russian meddling). You got George W. Bush as president in an election in 2000 which he also lost to Al Gore. History is riddled with bad guys winning and prevailing over the good, and especially in the realm of religion and religious movements, like the example of Jesus himself or Imam Husayn (as) whom your handler claims to believe in.]]]
 
You keep changing rhetorical tactics to keep propping up your bullshit long after you should have given up!
 
Indeed, this is EXACTLY the sort of mental gymnastics I have always hated seeing from Baha’i’s like DBO, Christian apologists, and others in religion and politics that are such GODDAMN HYPOCRITES IN PUBLIC, because their inconsistent religious or political dogmatism enables the behavior they want to get away with. And the whole point of debating with Wacki Azoo for so long was to expose him for what he is, no better than all those other assholes in this messed up world!

LOL!!!!!

Pat Robertson is Dead….but he Lived to age 93, Dammit!

I think Rebecca Watson said it best, so I will allow her to speak for me here:

Reactions on reddit are as follows:

 

 

 

I hope his influence dies with him!

Damning proof that Wahid Azal lied outright about Naser Emtesali and “u/MirzaJan”

Take a look at this post in reddit:

I and others made many comments in it, but I want to focus on ones by a reddit user known as MirzaJan.

Yes, that fact is known to many. In fact, it was once a highly prominent anti-Baha’i blog that received regular updates. Wahid Azal believes that I am Nasser Emtesali, and he thinks you are investigator919!

This blog appears to be quite old, and I don’t have any reasons to believe that it is sponsored by the government. I have shared some of its content here, and perhaps that is why Wahid assumes that I am Nasser.

______________

[[[Wahid Azal believes that I am Nasser Emtesali]]]

DBO also believes this. Because both of them are liars who use various reddit accounts to get around being blocked and banned, of course they will assume we are no better than them!

News flash: Using sockpuppets to infiltrate this subreddit, or any other, is a VIOLATION of reddit rules! And we know both those assholes have done this!

________________

And as if on cue…..

Oh, for fuck’s sake! It has been an open secret for years that that is one of MirzaJan’s sites. Naser Emtesali is MirzaJan who also posts on Quora as Prithvi Singh (and once upon a time with the alias Covenant Breaker on Iranian.com). All three names are fictitious and not real names. But all lead to the same person who is, without a shadow of a doubt and to a moral certainty, a cyber-basiji in the employ of the IRGC and living in India like MirzaJan.

___________________

Really?  That would be like someone saying that Adolph Hitler was without a shadow of a doubt and to a moral certainty, of JEWISH descent! The irony would be hilarious, but that doesn’t make it true. Evidence is what matters, not what one would like to believe.

BTW, I deleted the comment from Creepy_Cricket, who by his own admission was indeed a new account of Wahid Azal, but as a mod of r/exbahai, I can still see it….and thus use it against that idiot. I quickly got that new account of his banned from the subreddit too.

Soon afterwards, he made this:

I’ll just copy and paste the relevant portion:

From: Naser Emtesali
Date: Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 3:00 AM
Subject: Re: A marriage made in hell: Baha’is, Russia, the Duginists and the Alt-Right
To:

Dear Wahid,

Salaam,

Thank you for this. I have read it twice to understand it. :)Your writings are really powerful.May I upload this on my blog?

Thanks & Regards

MirzaJan

___________________

Looks like credible evidence, doesn’t it? Then again, we must remember when Azal tried to take down my YouTube channel using false copyright claims, even using a faked blog to do it.

Wahid Azal is trying to get me banned from YouTube

Update on my Current Battle on YouTube

Defeating Wahid Azal again!

MORE evidence of Wahid Azal’s blatant hypocrisy!

I fought back at him and won, since my YouTube account was completely restored after a few weeks. I proved the acts of fraud in this case with damning screenshots.

Just as blog entries can be created and then altered for purposes of misrepresentation, defamation and fraud, so can e-mails.

Small wonder MirzaJan was unfazed and went after Azal over this “revelation”.

 
Your writings are really powerful.
 
Lol. He must be a joker to say that.
 
__________________
 
 
That’s you. Even signed with the alias, including all electronic headers and footers proving it an authentic email. And you are a joker. In fact you are one of the worst pathological liars I have ever run into online. Or shall I call you Prithvi. Or how about MirzaMaaderChodJanPrithviEmtesaliIRISingh…
 
Do you honestly think your denials are actually believed, eh MirzaMaaderChodJanPrithviEmtesaliIRISingh?
_________________
 

Perhaps the e-mail in question was real; there is no need to dispute that. Indeed, the blog entry referring to the information Wahid gave Naser Emtesali is here:

https://bahaism.blogspot.com/2017/01/a-marriage-made-in-hell-bahais-russia.html

And whether or not the information is accurate is also not an issue in this case. We are looking at the specific claim that MirzaJan = Naser Emtesali.

The specific date on the email is:

Jan 4, 2017

But…..when we look at MirzaJan’s actual reddit account:

https://www.reddit.com/user/MirzaJan/

Cake day

December 23, 2017

In reddit, the “Cake day” is when the account was created. NOT before January 4, 2017.

Does Wahid Azal really expect anyone to believe that MirzaJan signed an e-mail to him with that screen name almost ONE YEAR before creating the account with that screen name?

Because I sure don’t! His desperation to defame MirzaJan actually destroyed HIS credibility. LOL!

Granted, it is indeed twice as hard to debunk a half-truth as an outright lie. But not impossible! As long as you can look at the actual evidence, the truth always comes out!

A discussion about the Baha’i Faith in r/exchristian

As both an ex-Christian and an ex-Baha’i, I have been active in subreddits that reflect my background and interests.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exchristian/

https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/

Here’s a discussion in one subreddit I took part in:

 
Humanist, UU, Ex-Baptist & Ex-Baha’i
 
The ONLY reason I was ever homophobic was because of my being raised Baptist and later being a Baha’i. Once I stopped believing in the idea of infallible God-centered religions, I dropped my bigotry against LGBT people. I accepted that the founders and writers of most great religions knew nothing about sexual matters.
_________________________
 
Oh how interesting! May I ask what enticed you to become Baha’i?
_____________
So here I was making a casual reference to one of my past religions and apparently this other person had never heard of it, so I had to explain to them what it was about.
 
 
Humanist, UU, Ex-Baptist & Ex-Baha’i
My assumption that if there was a God, then logically I needed to find the most recent religion founded in his name instead of following an older one. One should know the will of God for this age, right? 
Once I realized that the Baha’i Faith was no better than Christianity, I gave up on belief in God completely. I am atheist now.

____________________

 
That’s so interesting to me because I often hear the opposite claim. That we should go to the oldest religion as its the most true. I’ve met Christians who legitimately believed Christianity was the first religion. Then there’s Islam that claims all the prophets of other religions were actually Muslims whose words got corrupted over time + we are all born Muslims. I’ve never seen someone contemplate the opposite before.
_________________
I thought, “In what universe does that make even a little bit of sense???”
 
Humanist, UU, Ex-Baptist & Ex-Baha’i
False dogmas and mistaken assumptions are common among older faiths. That’s how they sell themselves.
Following an older religion is like trying to work as a mechanic on a 2015 Ford car using a guide of a 1956 Ford car.

For the record, I drive a 2015 Ford Fiesta. And I do believe that as humans evolve, so should their religions. 

Wahid Azal Repeats his Lies and Makes More Excuses

About three years ago, I blocked in disgust Wahid Azal’s main account on reddit after discovering what a totally despicable liar and traitor he was against r/exbahai.

And in a recent post, he doubles down on his bullshit, thus showing he has absolutely NO sense of ethics whatsoever. To put it bluntly, he is indeed EVIL. Recently, he blocked me in return, no doubt to stop me from seeing more of his lies, but I learned to get around that barrier to see what he’s been doing.

He said the following:

wahidazal66

Like all other bahai lists online, exbahai is an echo chamber with an agenda tasked with gatekeeping and stymieing real opposition. There you have outright cyberbasijis rubbing shoulders with the BIA, like that recent arrival who was exposed here who is so transparent about what they are it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out. But whenever they and their transparently gratuitous talking points are pushed back against, this is what they always do: block. Yet note that over the past 4 years traffic to that subreddit has seriously come to a halt and it isn’t what it used to be. People are wisening up to the fact that not all is what it seems with exbahai. But when you appoint an imbecile, child groomer-pedo and head case like Gomer as a moderator, that is what you should expect. Also after u/investigator919 said what they said about the Woman, Life, Freedom Revolution in Iran, that list literally put a nail into its own coffin because there is no way they can talk that down or walk back an exbahai moderator’s outright parroting of IR government lines regarding what happened and is happening in Iran. This is why u/investigator919 was brought back as u/SuccessfulCorner2512 who is pretending now to be an exbahai hailing from an aristocratic Iranian bahai family when it is obvious who this person actually is.

_____________

wahidazal66

But that shouldn’t deter you. Just get another ID and go back over there and give em hell. I’m still there and whenever I don’t have anything better to do I have been commenting there for over 2 years now with an ID they won’t even expect. Been doing the same with r/bahai as well. In this age of hybrid warfare, there are no rules; and, morally speaking, no one is obliged to actually respect and abide by what the corporate American Tech Beast and its rules say. If you can find ways to f*ck with their heads and sh*t on them, by all means do so! This is a war after all. My rules are the Bayan and my own completion of it. Period, full-stop, and not American capitalism’s rules and the rules of its assorted minions who are the ultimate Enemy. No one ever won a war by abiding by their enemy’s rules which is also what Krishna tells Arjuna in the Baghavad-Gita during the battle scene. As I said to you privately, this is what the Qalandari Left-Hand Path is really all about: only abiding by the divine rules but never the rules of man! Again, note the story of Khidr and Moses in the Quran.

So let’s dissect these statements. shall we?

Like all other bahai lists online, exbahai is an echo chamber with an agenda tasked with gatekeeping and stymieing real opposition.

Azal claims the only real opposition to the Baha’i Faith is him. This is not possible at all because he is a Bayani and it was the Bab who started the disruptions in Persia (AKA Iran) that Baha’u’llah would decades later take advantage of to form his own Baha’i community out of the ashes of the failed Babi community. In order to really defeat the Baha’i Faith, you must discredit BOTH the Bab and Baha’u’llah! And that is something I can do…..because I am an ATHEIST!

There you have outright cyberbasijis rubbing shoulders with the BIA, like that recent arrival who was exposed here who is so transparent about what they are it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

I wonder who he was referring to. And what the hell is a “cyberbasiji”? His making up terms like that to insult people is just stupid.

But whenever they and their transparently gratuitous talking points are pushed back against, this is what they always do: block.

No, he gets banned from places like r/exbahai for being dishonest, disruptive and verbally abusive. Trolling, basically. That’s really all he does.

Yet note that over the past 4 years traffic to that subreddit has seriously come to a halt and it isn’t what it used to be. People are wisening up to the fact that not all is what it seems with exbahai.

He is just making that up. r/exbahai is doing quite well considering how few members it has. We do a lot of good there. I moderate that place, so I see what goes on there. Speaking of which:

But when you appoint an imbecile, child groomer-pedo and head case like Gomer as a moderator, that is what you should expect.

“Gomer” is the nickname he invented for me. And there is no proof whatsoever that I have ever molested or groomed a child. He says that about me because he knows I am better at discrediting the Baha’i Faith than he is, as noted before. I have written against pedophiles several times, as well as against teachers who sexually abuse their own students, like Mary Kay Latourneau, may she be damned!

Also after u/investigator919 said what they said about the Woman, Life, Freedom Revolution in Iran, that list literally put a nail into its own coffin because there is no way they can talk that down or walk back an exbahai moderator’s outright parroting of IR government lines regarding what happened and is happening in Iran.

He is referring to this:

Where investigator919 said this:

She wasn’t beaten to death. That was the lie that triggered the protests. The CT-Scans clearly show a prior brain surgery. However, since the average Joe can’t make a distinction between brain surgery and a blow to the head, everyone went with the narrative that she was killed because that’s what they wanted to believe. I had to fact-check the CT-Scan images myself through one of our relatives who is a doctor because I had no idea what the CT-Scan of her head was showing.

This is how the media fools you. And yes, the “so called” supreme leader (I don’t consider him my leader) wasn’t lying in this case and in similar protests. Every time there is any form of protest in Iran it is hijacked by ISRAEL / SAUDI / US / MEK media channels. I was surfing twitter for the past two weeks and there were so many lies being propagated by their media channels and being re-twitted and established as fact that it made me sick. Three examples:

-Tweet: <So and so district of Tehran has been overtaken by protesters.> Me: You idiots I live here there is no protest in this district and there never was.

-Tweet: <shows movie captioned: “innocent protester killed by police.”> Few hours later the complete movie is tweeted by another account that shows the so called dead protester getting up and walking away.

Tweet: <Iranian security forces open fire on peaceful people that had gathered to pray in the city of Zahedan killing twenty.> I immediately thought to myself this doesn’t make sense. Why would someone do this? Then even after a separatist group posted a video and claimed responsibility for inciting the violence, thousands of twitter accounts were still retweeting the initial fake narrative for days.

The whole goal is so called regime change. At the end of the day no one cares for Mahsa Amini or any other woman in Iran (if they did we wouldn’t have been sanctioned by western governments to the dark-ages). Just a few days ago nearly 30 Shia women were killed by suicide bomber in Afghanistan. No one batted an eye. In fact those bombings and killings of innocent women happen on a daily basis in Afghanistan, Yemen, and also Palestine. But no one cares. No one gives a shit. What made Mahsa Amini different? What makes Iran so special? Regime change in Iran. Toppling a government that opposes the west and refuses to bow to it.

The Iranian government is neither the angel that it portrays itself and neither the devil that is portrayed by the west. It’s like every other government with its shortcomings and also good points. But if you want to measure the level of savageness of a government by counting the number of people it has killed, then I’m sure it’s no where near the top of the list where the US / Israel / Saudi and a bunch of other western countries stand.

What’s ironic about Wahid’s demonization of investigator919 is that Baha’is in reddit do the same thing to him and for the same reason:  he is a Shia Muslim who lives in Iran. But if you look carefully, he is NOT merely parroting the claims of the Iranian government. 

And yes, the “so called” supreme leader (I don’t consider him my leader) wasn’t lying in this case and in similar protests.

The Iranian government is neither the angel that it portrays itself and neither the devil that is portrayed by the west. It’s like every other government with its shortcomings and also good points.

He may have blind spots with regards to Shia teachings, but he does show critical thinking in this case. 

There was an exchange of messages between him and me that read as follows.

I’ve been so ANGRY about Iran and about Islam these past couple of weeks that I wasn’t sure I could even discuss the matter with you without coming across as rude and even a bit bigoted. Thanks for not humiliating me in public.

_______________

No need to apologize. I don’t blame you for being angry. The media and cyberspace these days is filled with truths, half-truths, and outright lies. No one knows what to believe anymore.

Moving on……

This is why u/investigator919 was brought back as u/SuccessfulCorner2512 who is pretending now to be an exbahai hailing from an aristocratic Iranian bahai family when it is obvious who this person actually is.

Another completely made up claim. I can usually tell when someone like Wahid Azal or DavidBinOwen is using sockpuppets to infiltrate subreddits they have been banned from (which is a clear violation of reddit rules). They have a distinctive writing style and means of expression that they cannot change, which proves they are incompetent. So is Wahid saying that investigator919 is better at faking a personality than he is? LOL!

See what happened between those two here:

Wahid Azal Disgraces Himself Again.

The difference in expressions between investigator919 and SuccessfulCorner2512 is light years apart. So why did Azal claim they are the same person? Because that is what pathological liars do, even if it makes them look STUPID!

But that shouldn’t deter you. Just get another ID and go back over there and give em hell. I’m still there and whenever I don’t have anything better to do I have been commenting there for over 2 years now with an ID they won’t even expect. Been doing the same with r/bahai as well.

So here we see Azal clearly admitting to violating reddit rules and encouraging such violations from others! That should get him banned permanently from reddit, and I mean ALL his accounts, FOREVER!

In this age of hybrid warfare, there are no rules; and, morally speaking, no one is obliged to actually respect and abide by what the corporate American Tech Beast and its rules say. If you can find ways to f*ck with their heads and sh*t on them, by all means do so! This is a war after all. My rules are the Bayan and my own completion of it. Period, full-stop, and not American capitalism’s rules and the rules of its assorted minions who are the ultimate Enemy. No one ever won a war by abiding by their enemy’s rules which is also what Krishna tells Arjuna in the Baghavad-Gita during the battle scene. As I said to you privately, this is what the Qalandari Left-Hand Path is really all about: only abiding by the divine rules but never the rules of man! Again, note the story of Khidr and Moses in the Quran.

This is the “ends justify the means” fallacy. Joseph Stalin made himself the supreme lawmaker in the Soviet Union for decades and killed MILLIONS of his own people simply to enforce his will on them. Mao Zedong killed millions of his own Chinese people. Pol Pot is said to have killed ONE-THIRD of the Cambodian people in the same way! And I have no doubt if Wahid Azal ever gains political power anywhere, he will also exterminate people. After all, in war you kill people en masse on a regular basis … and didn’t he call what he does a war? Why protest against the tyranny of the Islamic Republic of Iran and the hypocrisy of the Haifan Baha’i leadership when he is indeed no better than them?

And Wahid Azal’s own insanity make me think the Bab was just as crazy and dangerous. No wonder he was killed in 1850!

And for the record, my rejection of the Baha’i Faith in 2004-2005 had nothing to do with the Bab. But I hate the Bab’s legacy NOW……because of WAHID AZAL! May he be DAMNED forever!

311444698_10159304142318661_1975453612869565658_n

Another Haifan Baha’i Gets Busted on Reddit

A subreddit devoted to religion in general got a post from a Muslim about the Baha’i Faith.

But among the comments there was a verbal tennis match between trident, a Unitarian Baha’i, and FrenchBread, a Haifan Baha’i.

You will have many responses if you post this in r/bahai
________________
Baha’i
r/Freespeechbahai for alternative Bahai perspectives

________________

you aren’t even a Baha’i
________________
Baha’i

Yes I am

_______________

There is no such thing as Haifan or Unitarian Bahá’ís. You can’t make things up like that. I can call myself the Wizard of Oz but it doesn’t mean anything.
___________________________
Baha’i

The difference between Haifan and Unitarian Bahais is Haifan Baha’is believe that after Baha’u’llah’s death Abdul Baha’s Will was to be followed, which appointed Shoghi Effendi and then the UHJ as the successors, whereas Unitarian Bahais believe that after Baha’u’llah’s death the instructions of the Kitab i Ahd were to be followed, which appointed Mirza Muhammad Ali as the successor of Abdul Baha.

I don’t see why you think there is no such thing as a Unitarian Bahai.

__________________

The Kitab-i-Ahd did not appoint Mirza Muhammad Ali. Go read it again.
_______________________
Baha’i

It says Abdul Baha and then Muhammad Ali after him.

_____________________

No it says the station of Muhammad Ali is beneath that of Abdul’Baha. It says nothing of him succeeding Abdul’Baha. It also says we must obey Abdul’Baha and to turn away from him is like turning away from Baha’u’llah. Abdul’Baha was free to choose his successor and he chose Shoghi Effendi. It’s a done deal. There is nothing to argue.
____________________

Only in the Haifan translation. Beneath is a mistranslation of the word بعد, which means “after” and does not mean “beneath”. Earlier translations did not use the word beneath. I include the Horace Holley translation in this post:

https://old.reddit.com/r/FreeSpeechBahai/comments/pbkwoe/my_interpretation_of_bahaullahs_successor/

The word “beneath” is not found here.

This is what the Kitab i Ahd says in the original language:

وصيّة اللّه آنکه بايد اغصان و افنان و منتسبين طرّاً بغصن اعظم ناظر باشند انظروا ما انزلناه فی کتابی الاقدس اذا غيض بحر الوصال و قضی کتاب المبدء فی المآل توجّهوا اِلی من اراده اللّه الّذی انشعب من هذا الاصل القديم مقصود از اين آيه مبارکه غصن اعظم بوده کذلک اظهرنا الامر فضلاً من عندنا و انا الفضّال الکريم قد قدّر اللّه مقام الغصن الاکبر بعد مقامه انّه هو الآمر الحکيم قد اصطفينا الاکبر بعد الاعظم امراً من لدن عليم خبير

_______________________

Whether or not you translate it as “beneath” or “after” does not change the fact that the passage is not implying in any way about who should be the successor after Abdul’Baha. I can’t fathom how you can read it in such a matter. Once Muhammad Ali broke the covenant by not recognizing Abdul’Baha it’s a moot point. Muhammad Ali was excommunicated so he can’t be the successor anyway. You need to stop spreading this kind of disinformation. It’s so harmful to your soul that I am deeply saddened for you.
_____________________

It doesn’t imply it. It commands it explicitly:

Verily, God hath ordained the station of the Greater Branch after the station of the former. Verily, He is the Ordainer, the Wise. We have surely chosen the Greater after the Greatest as a Command from the All-Knowing, the Omniscient!

____________________

It says station not succession. My station is lower than Abdul’Baha but that doesn’t mean I am to succeed him. The key word is station.
____________________
Baha’i

So what was the point of mentioning Muhammad Ali at all?

____________________

To make sure Muhammad Ali (and everyone else in the family and the community) knew that Muhammad Ali was to obey Abdul’Baha. So that Muhammad Ali would not challenge the successorship after Baha’u’llah’s death, and everyone would turn to Abdul’Baha for leadership and there wouldn’t be a schism.
________________

Baha’i

Wouldn’t it make things clearer to just not mention Muhammad Ali, and just say that everyone was to obey Abdul Baha?

____________________

Clearly Baha’u’llah felt the need to address Muhammad Ali by name specifically so that there would be no doubt or question amongst everyone in the family. I’d recommend you read God Passes Bye which talks quite a bit about the trouble that Muhammad Ali was causing at the time for Abdul’Baha. Later in Abdul’Baha’s ministry, Muhammad Ali went as far as trying to have Abdul’Baha crucified by the Ottomans.
________________________
Well, that was over two months ago. When I found that thread, I decided that FrenchBread needed to be taught a lesson in humility. So I went after him!
Unitarian Universalist

If other Baha’is are anything like YOU in the way you argued with trident here, then clearly those responses in the Baha’i subreddit are not to be trusted.

You said:

There is no such thing as Haifan or Unitarian Bahá’ís. You can’t make things up like that. I can call myself the Wizard of Oz but it doesn’t mean anything.

That’s like saying there is no such thing as a Christian outside the Roman Catholic Church. Don’t be so bigoted! Then you claimed:

[The Kitab-i-Ahd] says the station of Muhammad Ali is beneath that of Abdul’Baha. It says nothing of him succeeding Abdul’Baha. It also says we must obey Abdul’Baha and to turn away from him is like turning away from Baha’u’llah. Abdul’Baha was free to choose his successor and he chose Shoghi Effendi. It’s a done deal. There is nothing to argue.

Do you read the original languages of Baha’u’llah’s writings, Arabic and Persian? Apparently not! When trident tried to correct you with the actual quotation from the passage in question, you simply doubled down on the falsehoods.

Whether or not you translate it as “beneath” or “after” does not change the fact that the passage is not implying in any way about who should be the successor after Abdul’Baha. I can’t fathom how you can read it in such a matter. Once Muhammad Ali broke the covenant by not recognizing Abdul’Baha it’s a moot point. Muhammad Ali was excommunicated so he can’t be the successor anyway. You need to stop spreading this kind of disinformation. It’s so harmful to your soul that I am deeply saddened for you.

Why do you assume Mirza Muhammad-Ali broke the Covenant? Because you believe what was written about him decades after the fact? You weren’t there, so you don’t know what really happened, do you?

The real reason for the dispute between the brothers was because Abdu’l-Baha falsely claimed infallibility for himself after Baha’u’llah made clear in the Kitab-i-Aqdas that NO ONE but God and a Messenger of God could be infallible. He also warned his followers in that book that no one could claim direct revelation from God for 1000 years after his time. Abdu’l-Baha’s claim about himself made it look like he was equal to his father and that made Muhammad-Ali think Abdu’l-Baha violated the Covenant. And once the Covenant was broken, the obligation to obey Abdu’l-Baha became irrelevant. Abdu’l-Baha was just as bound to the rules of his father as Muhammad-Ali was. Having Muhammad-Ali act as a check on Abdu’l-Baha’s absolute power was actually a wise thing for Baha’u’llah to do, in hindsight. Too bad most Baha’is, including you, have chosen to ignore the actual facts about Baha’u’llah’s own teachings. Instead, you use talking points that really don’t make sense. Trident did say:

Wouldn’t it make things clearer to just not mention Muhammad Ali, and just say that everyone was to obey Abdul Baha?

Obviously, yes! Then you said:

Clearly Baha’u’llah felt the need to address Muhammad Ali by name specifically so that there would be no doubt or question amongst everyone in the family.

Because……if Abdu’l-Baha was caught breaking the Covenant, Muhammad-Ali would have the right to challenge him by the authority given to him by both the Kitab-i-Aqdas and the Kitab-i-Ahd. And THAT’S WHAT HE DID!

And as for this final claim of yours:

Later in Abdul’Baha’s ministry, Muhammad Ali went as far as trying to have Abdul’Baha crucified by the Ottomans.

That’s absurd! And when did the Ottoman Empire ever crucify people?

It’s only natural for Shoghi Effendi after being made Abdu’l-Baha’s successor to demonize Muhammad-Ali to justify what was done. Therefore, his book God Passes By is not credible. It’s like Joseph Stalin demonizing Leon Trotsky after Stalin became the Soviet dictator, even though Trotsky was also a loyal Communist.

_____________________

The next day after I made that comment, I discovered that FrenchBread had blocked me and my comment had been downvoted by several people. Such pathetic cowardice! But that’s what happens when Haifan Baha’is can’t control the conversation like they can in r/bahai! They run away!

Wahid Azal Disgraces Himself Again.

Wahid Azal has a long history of picking stupid fights with people just to pump up his hyperinflated ego. This week, he did it again to one of my exBaha’i allies.

He was referring to this:

Where the following comments were made:

It’s difficult to understand that view, to be honest. If I were to rank the Baha’i figures in terms of harmful beliefs, the Bab would top it by some margin, followed by Baha’u’llah (though the future potential for harm is greater for BH). The Bab caused anarchy and bloodshed for several years, and when given a viable plan to stop the bloodshed, he replied that the blood was like fertiliser for the soil. He advocated beliefs so deeply fanatical that we can find no parallel outside recent extremist religious movements such as ISIS, e.g. taking possessions away from non-believers to give to believers, burning books, and many other despicable, evil, and ludicrous teachings.

The notion that God would “manifest” on Earth and tell us to burn books and kill non-believers, as the Bab did, makes me shudder. The Bab was definitely one of the evilest men in recent Persian history.

________________

Unitarian Baha’i

I’m not too concerned with the Bab’s teachings on violence since Baha’u’llah came later and banned holy war and abrogated the burning of books. So it is no longer an important question if the Bab taught violence. In any case, there have been times in history where violence was justified (e.g. pre-Islamic Arabia).

______________________

So God endorsed the burning of books and homicide in 1844 and changed his mind in 1863. Fickle isn’t he.
__________________
Then someone barged in to attack SuccessfulCorner.
Wahid Azal sockpuppet

What is your evidence that the Babis endorsed burning books and homicide, you shameless IR hack? Tell us again how many leftists Khomeini ordered executed without trial at the tail end of the war with Iraq that you so-and-sos started.

___________________

Wahid Azal sockpuppet

The Bab caused anarchy and bloodshed for several years,

This is IRI state propaganda and mullah nonsense articulated by the same people who literally created anarchy in Iran during 1978-9 to seize power by force and murder millions. No such anarchy was created in Iran by the Babis. They were pushed by a corrupt system, and so rightfully took a stance of defensive jihad against it. Proto-ISIS was the Ayatollah Khomeini and the system you truck for, basiji-e-koon kesh!

____________________

I recognized this user as another account being used by Wahid Azal, so I deleted the comments and reported them to the other mods of r/exbahai, causing him to be banned again.

SuccessfulCorner then went to the new post Azal made in his own subreddit.

Wahid, I’d be happy to debate you if you’d be happy to tone down the obtuse language and use paragraphs.

Now, tell me more about yourself. You identify as a Babi but not a Baha’i?

___________________

Bayānī

You don’t know who I am? Some of the people of Hot Air (أهل هباء) (i.e. our terminology for bahais first coined by Subh-i-Azal) consider me to be enemy #1.

Now, you have made a series of false assertions that come straight out of the textbooks of IR state propaganda regarding the Babi period. Can you support what you say?

Let’s start here. You say:

The Bab caused anarchy and bloodshed for several years, and when given a viable plan to stop the bloodshed, he replied that the blood was like fertiliser for the soil. “

Besides being a lame, ahistorical and revisionist apology for Qajar absolutism and the unchecked power of their clerical allies of the time, pray tell, where exactly did the Primal Point say, “blood was like fertiliser for the soil“? Source?

Besides other things, the argument you are making above is a pro-statist argument. First, you are rationalizing the authoritarianism and corruption of the Qajar state and clergy. Second, you are thoroughly whitewashing the events of the time. Third, you have not even factored in what the Qajar state and clergy did to push the Babis into open revolt against it. In other words, your argument possesses no causality and attempts to represent the Babi Revolution as a sort of sui generis violent uprising with the state and clergy as its “innocent victims” – LOL! – who did nothing to bring it upon themselves! Again, these are the sorts of fallacies and whitewashes the IRI and its hawzavi allies regularly employ as talking points about the Babis and the era: talking points that also have a few of their sources in the intellectually dishonest Baha’i sectarian rewrite of Babi history.

Then you say: He advocated beliefs so deeply fanatical that we can find no parallel outside recent extremist religious movements such as ISIS…

The comparison to Daesh/ISIS is a regular IR talking point and is nonsense, and the claim to finding no parallel is an even bigger fallacy. But these are things IR state media and the seminary regularly (and hypocritically) claim about the Bayan.

Then without context, you state:

e.g. taking possessions away from non-believers to give to believers, burning books, and many other despicable, evil, and ludicrous teachings.

First, disenfranchising non-believers of their property in the Bayan is only a feature under a Babi/Bayani state which did not exist between 1844-1850. Second, contrary to what you and the mullahs claim, there is no provision in the Bayan for the burning or destruction of books. Instead this is a claim first dishonestly asserted by the founder of Bahaism and then parrot-fashion repeated by the mullahs as a way to misrepresent the provision and nuanced language of the sixth gate of the sixth Unity of the Bayan. In fact the 13th gate of the 9th Unity of the Bayan unequivocally commands the opposite, that under no circumstance a book or piece of writing ever be materially destroyed:

أنتم أبدًا كتابًا لا تخرقون

So what are the other despicable, evil, and ludicrous teachings here then? Your very language in misrepresenting the teachings, ordinances and history of the Bayan is the language of the IRI! Do you deny it?

____________________

You don’t know who I am? Some of the people of Hot Air (أهل هباء) (i.e. our terminology for bahais first coined by Subh-i-Azal) consider me to be enemy #1.

Never heard of you. You appear to be the only follower of an extinct religion, which must be fun.

It’s ironic that you talk about hot air, as you’re standing alone on top of an extinct volcano (Babism), substituting its bygone life with noise and hot air of your own.

Besides being a lame, ahistorical and revisionist apology for Qajar absolutism and the unchecked power of their clerical allies of the time, pray tell, where exactly did the Primal Point say, “blood was like fertiliser for the soil”? Source?

The sentiment here was the dominant pep talk from the Bab and among the followers of the blood-stained Babi movement. There’s no shortage of examples, including Hujjat-i-Zanjani who encouraged the Babi’s with “God has always decreed that in every age the blood of the believers is to be the oil of the lamp of religion.”

Similarly, Mulla-Husayn proclaimed, “Many a soul will, in this city, shed his blood in this path. That blood will water the Tree of God, will cause it to flourish, and to overshadow all mankind”.

Of course, the Bab could have intervened to stop the needless bloodshed. The Mu’tamid of Isfahan, Imárat-i-Khurshíd, approached the Bab with a plan which included arranging the marriage of the Bab to a sister of the Shah. The Bab replied “Not by the means which you fondly imagine will an almighty Providence accomplish the triumph of His Faith. Through the poor and lowly of this land, by the blood which these shall have shed in His path, will the omnipotent Sovereign ensure the preservation and consolidate the foundation of His Cause.”

Of course, none of this happened. They all died in vain for an evil and worthless cause.

First, disenfranchising non-believers of their property in the Bayan is only a feature under a Babi/Bayani state which did not exist between 1844-1850.

Shame on you, and shame on this disgusting false religion!

The theocratic state envisioned by the Bab was one characterized by a strange dualism of wickedness and stupidity. You acknowledged above an example of the unspeakably wicked vision of the Bab. Examples of his unspeakably stupid teachings include Babis writing the 95 names of God in henna on their bodies after a bath, reciting 700 Bayanic verses daily, not keeping over 19 (wahid) books, and many others, but I’ll spare you the embarrassment. The Bab’s obsession with the number 19 was clearly an expression of mental illness. He even foretold a time when “even the pens on the pencase shall be arranged according to the number wahid (19)”.

As for your comments on the response of the state, let us be absolutely clear: there is no government on Earth that would allow a new group of religious fanatics to establish such an evil and dystopic society as that envisioned by the Bab.

_________________

Wahid’s response showed he had been insincere in wanting any real debate.

Bayānī

ROFLMAO! That’s it? That’s all you got. Tsk tsk tsk…

Let’s get something straight, by your uncritical, unnuanced and totally shambolic ahistorical state propaganda sloganeering of a response (that is utterly full of sh*t from start to finish like everyone and everything associated with that regime) – merely repeating parrot fashion the same trite BS of IR state propaganda – you reveal yourself exactly as being what I say you are: an openly transparent propagandist and shill full of crap working for the Islamic Republic of Iran just here littering reddit and Wikipedia with their trash. You opine:

“God has always decreed that in every age the blood of the believers is to be the oil of the lamp of religion.”

The sentiment and words come directly from Shi’ite hadith. That you have a problem with it just shows your ignorance regarding your own sources. Then comes the real holler:

“Many a soul will, in this city, shed his blood in this path. That blood will water the Tree of God, will cause it to flourish, and to overshadow all mankind”.

You are citing a Baha’ i source, the Dawn Breakers, where Shoghi Effendi is literally putting words into the mouths of the protagonists for dramatic effect. We don’t even accept the legitimacy of that source. Find me something comparable in nuqtat’ul-kaf. Be that as it may, let’s assume for argument’s sake he said it: again, such wording and sentiments are replete throughout Shi’ite sources which the Babis merely echoed and pericoped. Your so-called dajjaal-imam Khomeini went on the pulpit in May 1979 in front of cameras and encouraged people to get themselves martyred and spill their own blood after the assassination of Mottahhari. Hypocrisy much?

And here is where your total ignorance and bias really reveals itself:

Examples of his unspeakably stupid teachings include Babis writing the 95 names of God in henna on their bodies after a bath, reciting 700 Bayanic verses daily, not keeping over 19 (wahid) books, and many others, but I’ll spare you the embarrassment. The Bab’s obsession with the number 19 was clearly an expression of mental illness.

Actually, it is writing allahumma (O God) for men with henna once (and in the baths) and al-rahman (the Compassionate) for women once (and in the baths). 95x is the bare minimum number of times a daily dhikr is to be recited. 700 is the number that the dhikr Allahu Azhar is to be recited. 19 is the number of the Unity (wahid) as well as the numerical value of Existence (wujud) in the science of the letters, not to mention the precise number of letters in the bismillah. If you call it mental illness, perhaps you should also call your dajjaal so-called imam one too since he too was enamored by the science of the letters and numbers and demonstrates it in his commentaries on al-Fatiha, the works of Hamza Fanari and Sadruddin Qunawi, etc. Your ignorance, animus and bias towards the the Primal Point and the Babis is so profound that it thoroughly unmasks you as a shill because for all their own unbelievable ignorance no bahai – whether enrolled or ex – would ever utter the kind of garbled, ignorant BS as you have here.

Then you say:

Of course, the Bab could have intervened to stop the needless bloodshed. The Mu’tamid of Isfahan, Imárat-i-Khurshíd, approached the Bab with a plan which included arranging the marriage of the Bab to a sister of the Shah. The Bab replied “Not by the means which you fondly imagine will an almighty Providence accomplish the triumph of His Faith. Through the poor and lowly of this land, by the blood which these shall have shed in His path, will the omnipotent Sovereign ensure the preservation and consolidate the foundation of His Cause.”

Again, you have your chronology completely garbled while also citing a BS source. While the Primal Point was in Isfahan and under the protection of Manuchehr Khan Mu’tamid-ad-Dawlih, the Georgian, who was the Point’s devotee, there was no bloodshed. So whatever words Shoghi Effendi has put into the mouth of the Point, it is a figment of his own imagination. The bloodshed begins 18 months after He left Isfahan. Be that as it may, you are blaming the Primal Point for refusing a royal bribe? You are a piece of work, but quite predictable for the IR/hawzavi types who are literally willing to give fellatio to anyone who even symbolically supports them, whatever the cost, like Khamenei is to Putin ATM. One recent name comes to mind as to what utter clowns you vilayatis are on that score: Catherine Shakdam!

Your incessant comparison of the Babis to Daesh/ISIS is the dead giveaway that you are a regime hack since it is one of the most notable and regular talking points of the regime. Hasan Ershad keeps repeating it parrot fashion. Every other regime polemicist has been saying exactly the same thing over and over again. Your alter ego u/Investigator919 has been saying this stuff like a broken record himself, and every time he has been challenged and shown the evidence that his assertion is a lie, he censors or runs away – and later comes back saying the same thing again. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it is a regime hack! That gullible fools like DH can’t see it is because, well, they are gullible fools being played like fiddles by you devils. But not everyone is a mentally ill, attention-seeking gullible fool like DH is.

That said, you and those viciously malevolent ignoramuses like you are a decisive argument as to why the Babis should’ve slaughtered every single last one of you hawzavis without mercy to the last man, woman and child without pulling a single punch. If they had, there wouldn’t have been a Khomeinist state in Iran for the past 44 years with an estimated and cumulative number of 3-4+ million Iranians murdered by it. This generation won’t be making the same mistake again.

In conclusion, you say you’ve never heard of me? Your alternative handle u/Investigator919 very much has. Hear this then, Basiji-e-oghdei: nice try, a$$h*le, but surely you don’t think people are really that dumb to not be on to you. Fuck off now back to your cubicle in Qom, or run along keep pretending you are some exbahai living in the UK and no one notices – when you aren’t any such thing!

Consider this having wiped the floor with your degenerate backside. So go now and cry to your little know-nothing, pedo Texan puppet, Gomer, to comfort his fellow degenerate because my argument opening this post stands unassailable like the Rock of Gibraltar with you duffuses incapable of refuting it.

سبزى پلو با ماهى، كس ننت بسيجى

The designations “DH” and “Gomer” refer to me. Gomer is perhaps a reference to Gomer Pyle, a classic TV character from the 1960s.

Meanwhile, I noticed the post by Azal and crossposted it to r/exbahai

And made my own comments:

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

Since I am probably banned from r/BAYAN and would never go in there anyway:

The Bab claimed to be the return of the 12th Imam. That claim was forever debunked by his death…..HE WASN’T SUPPOSED TO BE MARTYRED! But the influence of Christianity enabled Babis to later believe the Bab willingly died for the Cause of God just as Jesus had done. Google “sunk cost fallacy” to understand this appearant shift in their thinking.

Yes, the Babis DID attempt to overthrow the Persian government by violence once the Shah refused to convert to the Babi Faith, because the Iman Mahdi was expected to overthrow ALL the enemies of the Cause of God. Wahid Azal is flat out lying if he denies the fuking obvious.

_______________________

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

an audience of mostly ‘vanilla and milk-toast’ Anglo-American liberals of ‘Unitarian Universalist’ mold

It is hilarious that he used to call me (an American of European descent and, yes, a Unitarian Universalist) a racist, while he himself spits out such blatantly bigoted crap like that, clearly aimed at me. Who does he think he is?!

He needs to get a dictionary. And sessions with a psychiatrist. He has absolutely no business telling others about racism. #hypocrite

_________________

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

And here’s another damning example of Wahid Azal totally misrepresenting the Bab’s teachings in a desperate attempt to make the Bab look better than he was:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/comments/cxdsax/answering_investigator919s_disinfo_part_1/

Gaslighting 101.

_____________________

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

Over there:

SuccessfulCorner2512

Wahid, I’d be happy to debate you if you’d be happy to tone down the obtuse language and use paragraphs.

Now, tell me more about yourself. You identify as a Babi but not a Baha’i?

wahidazal66

You don’t know who I am? Some of the people of Hot Air (i.e. our terminology for bahais) identify me as enemy #1.

Now, you have made a series of assertions that come straight out of the textbooks of IR state propaganda regarding the Babi period. Can you support what you say?

_______

identify me as enemy #1.

I seriously doubt that, since you are not a government official in Iran or some other country known to have persecuted Baha’is. You are just some cultist screaming across the internet.

you have made a series of assertions that come straight out of the textbooks of IR state propaganda regarding the Babi period.

Isn’t THAT itself a wild assertion? Don’t ask him to support his claims while you never can support YOURS.

____________________

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

Wahid has edited his earlier comment, perhaps thinking I wouldn’t notice and react to it. It is now up to u/SuccessfulCorner2512 to respond to his challenge. Specifically:

  1. Where did the Bab say that “blood was like fertilizer for the soil” in reference to his opponents in Persia?

  2. Is it really appropriate to compare the Babi movement in the 1840s to ISIS? Based on what facts?

___________________

I’ll cross-post here in case he deletes it:
(The long comment he made at Azal over there)
_______________________

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

Oh, I’m sure he won’t delete your reply, but he will resort to personal insults, lies, and mental gymnastics that rival anything Baha’is have ever done. That’s what he is notorious for and why he was banned from here years ago.

_______________________

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

Confirmed!

(The long comment Azal made with references to me…..that were added in an edit later)

Google Translate makes that last Persian passage to say:

Vegetable rice with fish, you won’t like it.

Whatever that means.

SuccessfulCorner then reported to me that Azal banned him from r/BAYAN. LOL!

BTW, it’s interesting that Azal uses the same arguments to make the Bab’s lunacy more palatable to Western audiences that Baha’is do, and Baha’is have done so much to spread knowledge of and belief in the Bab around the world, yet Azal hates Baha’is. That’s like Christians hating Jews despite Jesus himself being Jewish!

Another note: Dismissing arguments against the credibility of the Bab as Iranian state propaganda is a form of the ad hominem fallacy. Historical facts with clear and consistent documentation and logical consistency are what matter, not where the facts came from. That’s why I used logic and my understanding of Shia Muslim teachings to debunk the Bab’s and Wahid Azal’s claims. I would do that even though I am an atheist and even if Iran had a secular government.

Just for fun, here’s a song by the rock band Ghost:

A Challenge Leads to a Peaceful Resolution

While exploring reddit, I discovered another Baha’i subreddit I had never seen before:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BabandBahaullah/

This community will be to discuss the revelations and ministries of the Bab and Baha’u’llah, use their teachings as primary sources for discussion, and find pathways to enable positive social change. Please abide by the rules and show loving kindness for all.

Then I saw this:

Anything, I wondered? So I decided to challenge the subreddit’s creator.

Seeker_Alpha1701

What do you consider to be valid proofs of the Bab and of Baha’u’llah?

What would make you reject at least one of them?

____________________

I am incapable of proving God exists. How could I ever prove something came from God? This is the claim of the Bab, Baha’u’llah, and others.
Why do I accept their claims? For the same reason I continue to believe in God despite the incapability to currently prove God exists? It is based on faith, grounded in a feeling I feel within myself.
There are many things in existence we take for granted but have no proof of. We have evidences of their existence, but no actual proof. I’m ok with that.
Since I do not require any proofs for that which I feel within me, the only thing that would change my perspective is if my feeling were to change.

________________

That was NOT anything like I expected, since I was used to seeing arrogant talking points from fanatics like DavidBinOwen.

Your honesty is commendable. This is what separates you from bigoted extremists.
____________________
 
What had changed your perspective regarding the Bab?
__________________
Yikes! I guess I should have seen that coming! But I decided I would not hold back from being direct in answering the question.
 
Several things…..
  1. The Bayani claim that the Bab was NOT the forerunner of Baha’u’llah, but was supposed to bring in a new age for humanity on his own. Baha’u’llah was said to be a usurper.

  2. The Shia Muslim claim that the Bab’s claims about himself were debunked the moment he was killed. He should have defeated his enemies instead.

  3. The Sunni Muslim claim that the twelve Imams Shiites revere were not of any special status. The Bab was supposed to be the return of the 12th Imam.

  4. The atheist argument that if God cannot be proven to exist, then claims by Prophets supposedly sent by God are irrelevant.

But my actual rejection of the Baha’i Faith in 2004 had nothing to do with the Bab. That’s another issue altogether.

_______________________

The reason why I asked about the Bab is because if you were a Baha’i, you had to have believed in the Bab during the time you were a Baha’i. As you express yourself to be an atheist (assuming by point 4), your points 1-3 actually wouldn’t matter since the Bayani, Shia, and Sunni people do believe in God. Any claim any of those 3 groups would make would be irrelevant if you also believe in point 4.

What happened in 2004 which made you question that which the Bab had taught?

___________________

Why was he fixated on the Bab, I wondered. Again, I was direct in my response.

It was the general perception that if the Baha’i Faith was failing, the Bab had also failed, since Baha’u’llah was a follower of the Bab before starting the Baha’i Faith. I still believed that Baha’u’llah was supposed to be the one the Bab had foretold (thinking they knew each other, since they were both contemporaries and countrymen).

And if the Baha’i Faith had failed, since it was supposed to be the Religion of God for this age, God himself had failed.

Then I thought, “Maybe there is no God and that would explain why religions around the world are so messed up.”

And once I reached that conclusion, I never looked back. I rejected ALL God-centered religions.

_____________________

I understand why you feel as you do. As Bahau’llah (I think) taught, if religion becomes the source of fanaticism and yields no more fruit, it is best if it no longer exists.

Also, it is extremely difficult to see any faith or religion without the clergy and the organization. The Baha’i Faith has spent so much effort making it seem the organization IS the faith, that it is nearly impossible for people to see the Bab or Baha’u’llah without the Faith. In the Aqdas, he does promise another Manifestation and in the Iqan, he says why. Because the people would have completely turned away from the revelation.

However, I still feel that outside of the organization, God is having effect towards the things God promised through Baha’u’llah and nearly all of this exists outside of the organization, mostly by people who have never heard of the Bab or Baha’u’llah. I particularly wish people knew the story of the Bab. His ministry deeply touches me. I do not believe He was merely a forerunner but really was the Gate and the Primal Point. He first appeared in a dream of mine in 2003, and it took me nearly 5 years to figure out that this person was real.

As of 2023, there is much much less war in the world. The entire Western Hemisphere has no nation or tribe actively fighting the other. There is a loose federation of nations, although the United Nations is far from a potential end goal. Translation services and AI is bringing us closer to a common script. Many older faiths and/or believers of those faiths have adopted many of the tenets, such as monogamy, women having more freedom in things such as how they dress, and a greater understanding that there are common truths in all of the major faiths.

I can see the argument that says these and other things are the product of human innovation, which is true. This is the path we were meant to be on. I do believe we can progress more quickly if we adhere to the teachings of God more fully, but certain things are inevitable regardless of our belief or non-belief.

With that being said, a friend and I have plans to create, independent of the Baha’i Faith, a functioning Mashiriq’ul-Adhkar in our community. The Dawning Place of (community name).

BTW, I have visited a UU church before. It seems like a good community and its good to see people of varying perspectives have a common bond. I hope they have success in their goals.

_____________________

Again, I was quote floored by the gracious nature of his comments. It was a clear example of someone “killing me with kindness”. I decided at that point this particular Baha’i was no threat to the ex-Baha’i community of reddit I was representing. So I withdrew from the discussion.

Thank you for agreeing to let me come here. This was a pleasant discussion. This is how talks on religion should always be conducted. Farewell.
 
And I moved on…..

A Question About Translating the Baha’i Writings

Check this out:

And other members of r/exbahai, including me, gave replies.

 

exBaha’i atheist

Same reason the Catholic Church kept the Bible locked up in Latin long after that language died out…..they didn’t want the common people to know they were being scammed. The Protestant Reformation led to the Bible finally being translated into the common languages. The Catholic Church was then forced to change.

________________

Because by modern standards Bahaullah and the Bab were extremely conservative, whereas the Baha’i Faith in the West markets itself as a religion for progressives.

__________________

 

Never-Baha’i Christian

My take is that they know it says embarrassing material in it and if they were to translate it; members would leave in droves. It is quite revealing that William Miller who was a critic translated the Aqdas before the Baha’i Faith did. If Shoghi Effendi was such a great translator;why was he translating hundreds of pages before even attempting to translate Bahá’u’lláh’s most important work?

Also, if the Persian Bayan is the most important work of the Bab; why not translate it?

Is the Baha’i faith wants to spread their message because it changes lives for the better; why suppress it then?

_________________

 

exBaha’i atheist

It should be noted that even the Baha’i writings that have been translated into English are incredibly damning. In 2017, I subjected the Kitab-i-Aqdas to a critical analysis from start to finish, working over the course of a week and a half.

https://dalehusband.com/bahai-writings-criticism/

https://bahai-writings-criticism.blogspot.com/2017/09/a-critical-analysis-of-kitab-i-aqdas.html

The following year, I did the same to Abdu’l-Baha’s Will and Testament:

https://bahai-writings-criticism.blogspot.com/2018/04/a-critical-analysis-of-will-and.html

And two years ago I went after one of the most prominent Baha’i “history” writers who got elected to the Universal House of Justice and completely discredited him too!

https://dalehusband.com/2020/08/10/adib-taherzadeh-con-artist/

It seems that FRAUD is a crime in every other human activity except religion. I don’t think Baha’is should be persecuted, but someone like Adib Taherzadeh really should have been exposed as a pathological liar long before he could get as powerful as he became. But he got away with his crap because of the corrupt leadership of the Faith before him. He was serving their interests, so they eventually made him one of them.

If you start with corruption, it tends to perpetuate itself. The Universal House of Justice is a completely illegitimate body that, along with the rest of the Baha’i Administrative Order, should be dismantled. But I am confident it will eventually fall apart on its own.

_____________________

 

This is where I get confused. Because I’ve asked people before what motivates the UHJ, and the response is usually that they are true believers. Yet I can’t understand how someone can be a true believer and lie about the faith that they supposedly believe in. Are they actually fraudsters trying to make money or have power? Or is it a version of cognitive dissonance, where they believe in a particular idea of the faith and then in their heads rationalise anything else that doesn’t fit with it, as either irrelevant or blocked out from their memory?

______________________

 

exBaha’i atheist

Adib Taherzadeh wrote a book, The Covenant of Baha’u’llah, which is one loooooong collection of acts of “mental gymnastics”. This is when you start with the ASSUMPTION that something must be true, no matter what, and construct arguments to support the claim. That’s the exact opposite of how an honest investigation should be run. (“Here are the facts……what conclusions can we draw from them?”)

That book eventually made me realize after I got it that Christian fundamentalists and Baha’is argue the SAME WAY! And since I had already rejected Christianity…..

Most Baha’is (and Christians, really) are simply members of a loving community and may not give much thought to why they believe certain things. But in order to DEFEND dogmatic, extremist religion, you have to lie about it! You can either choose to believe the lies and thus be corrupted, or reject them after using consistent logic to cut through the double standards of mental gymnastics.

To understand how corrupt the whole process is, imagine if the police, the lawyers, and the courts all ASSUMED you were guilty of a crime and simply rejected an alibi you put forth (“I wasn’t even there, so I couldn’t have done it!”) and insisted you be punished because the facts didn’t matter, only the DOGMA that you are a criminal. THAT’S HOW MENTAL GYMNASTICS WORK!

____________________________

 

I remember somewhere reading that the Bab’s followers later followed a practice of dissimulation, lying about their own religion in order to work around persecution, or to gain influence and force regime change. I don’t know how accurate that might be, but it does make me wonder sometimes if the same thing is going on – we believe the faith, but we know it won’t be palatable for others, so we lie about what it really is, while retaining our belief in the hidden doctrine.

I guess this is what it might be, rather than deception for profit, or self-deception pure and simple. Mental gymnastics to me is slightly ambiguous, since it might imply that they are lying to themselves to deny a dogma they know to be true. Whereas it seems like maybe these people believe the ends justify the means – that they know and believe in the writings that they don’t share with others, but believe that it’s OK to lie about them, because the end result, of creating a new world system, justifies any measures.

Becoming a mod at r/exbahai

Last month, I was promoted to be the newest moderator at the exBaha’i subreddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/

Having to protect that group from intruders and trolls while also keeping it a safe space for freedom of speech is a delicate balancing act.

My first test of my abilities was here:

Which was a crosspost from here in r/bahai:

The discussion in r/exbahai began with this:

To me reflects that many Baha’is outright disagree with, are unaware of, or are just embarrassed by the conservative nature of the Faith as outlined by Shoghi Effendi.

Similarly many Baha’is take umbrage at covenant-breaking being equated with excommunication despite Shoghi Effendi and his secrataries comments in various places, i.e.:

That Document, furthermore, lauds the courage and constancy of the supporters of Bahá’u’lláh’s Covenant; expatiates on the sufferings endured by its appointed Center; recalls the infamous conduct of Mírzá Yaḥyá and his failure to heed the warnings of the Báb; exposes, in a series of indictments, the perfidy and rebellion of Mírzá Muḥammad-‘Alí, and the complicity of his son Shu‘á‘u’lláh and of his brother Mírzá Badí‘u’lláh; reaffirms their excommunication, and predicts the frustration of all their hopes; summons the Afnán (the Báb’s kindred), the Hands of the Cause and the entire company of the followers of Bahá’u’lláh to arise unitedly to propagate His Faith, to disperse far and wide, to labor tirelessly and to follow the heroic example of the Apostles of Jesus Christ;

https://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/shoghi-effendi/god-passes-by/24#229666135

As regards the matter of those who have withdrawn from the Faith on the west coast: as you know, no one has the right to excommunicate anybody except the Guardian of the Faith, himself.

https://reference.bahai.org/en/t/se/MC/mc-276.html?query=excommunicate&action=highlight#gr1

There are two things which he wishes to impress upon you. The first is that depriving people of their voting rights is the heaviest sanction which can be imposed at the present time (with the exception of excommunication, which is a right the Guardian has never permitted anyone else to exercise). Therefore, the greatest care should be exerted to try and remedy a situation before depriving anybody of their voting rights, and the action itself should only be taken if absolutely necessary.

https://reference.bahai.org/en/t/se/MC/mc-263.html?query=excommunication&action=highlight#gr1

__________________

Then the Baha’i who started the original discussion in r/bahai attacked us.

Do not cross post my posts on here — this is not your discussion.

____________________


You posted it on reddit, you can’t stop anyone from discussing it elsewhere on the internet (as much as Baha’is would like to be able to ban all discussion outside of on-rails Ruhi book skits and cheesy promotional videos from Haifa).

You could follow the advice given to people who post critical content on r/bahai and find somewhere else to complain about not being able to censor the internet.

I cordially invite you to adopt a humble posture of learning to advance the process of learning about unleashing the society building engine of limitless potentialities.

_________________

This is a discussion I as a Baha’i am having with other Baha’is, it was not for people like you to use and misrepresent for your own agendas.

________________

There were a lot of other things said, but I will jump ahead to where I entered the conflict.

 
ModModerator Achievement 
 
exBaha’i atheist

That’s enough! I will start moderating this place until you agree to either engage this discussion properly or simply go away.

______________

 
Haifan Baha’i

This is literally one of the last places on Reddit that I want to be. I’m only here to tell you to leave my content alone.

____________

 
exBaha’i atheist

Do not be telling others what to do. If you don’t want your content reposted, DON’T MAKE IT PUBLIC. It’s really that simple. He did nothing wrong here…..but you did!

________________

 
agnostic exBaha’i

Good grief! Nothing nothing made me realize how toxic the Baha’i Faith is like seeing how exBaha’is are treated on this forum.

You can’t discuss that! Those are Baha’i words, you can’t use those words! I forbid it! You can’t think about things I tell you not to think! Stop reflecting on your experiences and discussing your thoughts in a supportive community!

They claim to have the solution to world peace, but cannot handle a democratic discussion from a differing perspective 🙄

___________________

If you posted it, so it will be crossposted anywhere. If you don’t want this, so you can 1- erase your post 2- cry out to the UHJ and ask them to create their own Bahá’í social network with their FULL censorship as they are specialists on it. LOL

______________

I did delete several comments, but otherwise kept my cool.

Round two;

 
exBaha’i atheist

What are you talking about? Leftist politics are normally about using government as a social tool to bring about legal equality amongst people of different races, classes, genders, and religions. It’s not about censorship, which is a tool used by authoritarian states, not leftist ones.

The so-called “Communist” states in the 20th Century that claimed to be leftist were scams that simply replaced the ruling classes that ruled before Communism with the Communist parties themselves. George Orwell wrote Animal Farm to discredit that sort of nonsense.

Your claims and arguments make no sense whatsoever. Indeed, the Haifan Baha’i leadership strikes me as more right-wing than leftist. A true leftist leadership wouldn’t deny women the chance to get elected to it or insist on suppressing LGBT rights or expel “Covenant breakers” merely for dissenting from the leadership.

The idea that leftists want to suppress small businesses with individual owners is news to me too. What leftists hate are giant CORPORATIONS which are a basic component of modern capitalism and corporations are collective entities just like governments…..except they are NEVER democratic, because workers don’t get to elect their bosses.

Don’t get politics confused with religion, please. That’s what Conservatives have been doing and I’m fed up with it!

______________________

There was a lot more said there. After a while, I locked the comments there because things were getting too heated, and then unlocked them a few hours later. Trident reacted to my attempts to keep things orderly like this:

Nice libel, eh?

Round three also involved trident.

He started off with:

 
Unitarian Baha’i

The thing he/they did wrong is not getting married first. It is ridiculous to put 16 year olds in the same category as children. She was not “exploited”.

___________

 
exBaha’i atheist

I’ve been told that most people’s minds don’t fully mature until their 20s, so most teens are easily manipulated by adults to become their tools….which is why most criminal gangs are composed of teens. A desperately lonely and confused teen can be seduced into sex with an adult that only wants to exploit them.

I was referring to this:

Being Better Educated and Changing my Opinion

____________

 
Unitarian Baha’i

If this were true then every guy would be manipulating teen girls, myself included. The fact is that it is in fact extremely difficult to manipulate a 16 year old girl, because at that point she has gone through puberty and has developed defense mechanisms against it. If you think that you as an old creep are capable of seducing a teen girl, then you are delusional.

Like he has ever been a teenage girl?!

__________________

Bravo!
exBaha’i atheist

If this were true then every guy would be manipulating teen girls, myself included.

OMG!!! Like guys cannot CHOOSE NOT to be abusers of girls and women?! WTF is wrong with you?!

No, don’t bother answering because you are about to be BLOCKED!

______________

I didn’t have the ability to ban him outright from r/exbahai, so blocking him from being able to contact me was as much as I could do. Well, that and lock some of the comments.

 

 

Conservatives among Unitarian Universalists Still Feel Like Victims

Last week I posted this in a Reddit Unitarian Universalist group:

Several days later, this comment was posted there:

Unfortunately we no longer offer better. It is much, much worse at UU. If you are the slightest bit center politically (or worse, right), you will be cast aside. And this is an organization that is supposed to be about faith. It is really a liberal political organization now.

__________________

Really? So when has the UUA NOT been a political organization? If we want to make a better society, why not be political?

I looked at this person’s history in reddit and found these:

Everything you said was spot on. Our congregation and another one we followed were the most racist spaces I have ever encountered and I have lived in the South for the last 20 years. Everyone is judged by their race, not their words, thoughts, or actions. Heinous behavior is condoned, as long as the offender is a “social justice warrior, fighting on the side of truth.” If you are not a left leaning liberal (ideally white and well off), you will never feel welcome. That is evident by the current membership and minorities like myself that have left and now have no place of worship.

I don’t go to congregation on Sunday to discuss whatever MSNBC or Mother Jones are currently discussing. UU is now a political organization and should be striped of its tax exempt status.

________________

I know almost everyone in here (the extreme minority that is left and active in UU) disagrees with the author. I left the church for most of these reasons. When we started, it as an open, welcoming place where all were tolerated and welcomed with open arms. In 2016 when Donald Trump was elected and the UUA assembly debacles that followed, we no longer felt welcome.

I am a conservative (not republican), Asian, non Christian. The tone of the entire organization has shifted more and more left and privileged as time goes on. Look at the UUA Facebook page, it is ridiculous and followers have decreased over the last few years. It’s sad when most posts have no comments. The UUA is increasingly catering to a minority of their members, many of whom do not actively attend the organization anymore.

When a person of color does show up (myself included), it was ridiculous. Our opinions were not valued because they were our opinions, but simply because of the color of our skin. In trying to be more inclusive, the organization became more racist. No non white person (this is literally all rich white UU members seem to do these days) wants to get in a room and watch rich white people flog themselves all day and apologize for transgressions that may or may not have ever happened. It is tiresome and has nothing to do with fellowship. It just makes those members feel better.

I would love to return to a pre 2016 organization or one who actually follows the tenants that we are supposed to. Everyone is welcome, what a joke. The only people that are welcome are rich white liberals.

There may be hope in individual congregations, but my family (everyone else left as well) will never return as long as the UUA at large is committed to spending more time on political matters than ones of faith.

_________________

So you have left the UUs because they are too political. But I wonder if you would have a problem with evangelical Christians in religious organizations being hard-core conservatives, even supporters of Donald Trump and his racism?

No, because you are a conservative yourself! No doubt, if you had your way, there would be NO religious organizations at all representing the left, liberalism, and progressive values at all. RIGHT?!

Liberals like me have been demonized in the media and by Republicans for decades. You just don’t like it when we start to fight back!

So I moved to stop the bullshit. I didn’t delete the offensive comment, but…..

I didn’t post this to start a political fight here, and I won’t allow one here now. This thread will be locked.

A Statement About Mental Disorders and Domestic Abuse.

A friend of mine posted this the other day on Facebook:

Johnny Depp/Amber Heard
 
I was married to someone diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, although that diagnosis wasn’t given until after we separated. I had no idea the nightmare I was living through, all I knew was I wasn’t being treated fairly and I was miserable. One moment he would be sweet and loving, the next he was unimaginably cruel and telling me I was a horrible person. If I tried to confront him about anything ever he would tell me it was my fault, or lie and say it didn’t happen, or he would turn and walk out the door, get in his car and drive away without saying a word. If for some reason he couldn’t get away or couldn’t lie his way out of it he would flip out, which included suddenly screaming at the top of his lungs, throwing things, breaking things, wild accusations, getting in my face, towering over me and intimidating me with his size, just terrifying out of control behavior. Whenever he acted this way he would say I made him do it. It was my fault, for example: I tried to talk to him in the car and I should know to NEVER confront him in a car so it was my fault he freaked out. Or he had to lie because the truth would upset me. The lies were constant. He would lie about anything like a knee jerk reaction, things that didn’t even make sense to lie about. He would “future fake” which is when they promise to do better in the future but really are just stringing you along. He would say whatever I wanted to hear then turn around and do whatever he wanted without any regard to the promises he made. The splitting was the worst. It’s when they view you as all good or all bad, you can’t just be a good person who makes mistakes or made an offhanded comment that hurt their feelings. If you upset them, you are pure evil and doing everything to sabotage their life. Or you are their best friend and greatest most wonderful love. He would swing back and forth between greatest love and worst enemy, sometimes within minutes.
 
I learned that my mother has BPD (undiagnosed, untreated). It’s why I was willing to marry someone with it. He treated me the same way my mother did/does. Even as an adult, when I did something my mother didn’t like, she would go as far as to call my boss on her private cell phone and try to get me fired (this happened 6 months ago – I’m 39 years old and a single mother). She threatened to call my college and get me kicked out when I was 30 years old and paying for my own school because I disproved a point she was trying to make about evolution. Now that they are both out of my life I have learned how amazing life can be. People with BPD drain your soul and your energy. They don’t give AF about how they make others feel, all they care about is their own emotions, like a toddler who can’t comprehend the feelings of others and throws a fit when someone sets boundaries. They tell outrageous lies about the people they’re mad at as a way to justify treating them so badly. I don’t know if they believe the lies. But if they FEEL like you did something they accept it as a fact, whether or not you actually did that thing. I’ve had my mother and my ex acknowledge I didn’t do a thing and say, “But I FEEL like you did.” They will conjure something about you up in their own mind and treat you as if you did this thing that never happened, they will tell people you did something that never happened and even try to get others to treat you like shit for something that you didn’t do. It’s insane to witness. They keep you so energy drained and beaten down that you don’t know how to get back up, and you start to believe you are the terrible person they accuse you of being, and that no one else could possibly love such a person.
 
I’m team Johnny all the way. I know something of what he’s been through and I admire him for his bravery in telling his story to the world. I had no idea what BPD was until a therapist suggested my mother had it and I bought a book about it. It was like someone watched my childhood through a window and wrote it down in this book. My life would have been so much better if someone had shown me sooner.
 
ETA an example of blame shifting and justification for abhorrent behavior. A photo of messages between my mother and I. Read from the bottom up because when you download Facebook messages it puts them newest on top to oldest on the bottom.
 

279482910_5681835778499376_1488123421952092835_n

This reminds me of a statement that was sent to me about 2 1/2 years ago by a former friend of mine who turned out to be my WORST ENEMY!

Wahid Azal addresses his critics, take 2

Neither you, nor Christian ex-Bahai, let alone the dodgy moderators of that place, have correctly addressed a single indictment of your duplicitous behavior. I stand by what I said, and others seem to agree about your lot over there as well https://www.reddit.com/r/BAYAN/comments/cycea7/lets_talk_about_exbahai/ (not that consensus changes anything since facts stand on their own regardless who disagrees or agrees with them). You and Christian ex-Bahai are especially blind to what you say and do. But that goes with the territory of being self-righteous WASPs, so kindly stop playing the violin. Then again, white victim-playing when called out on white duplicitly always plays by the same playbook: reverse narrativization, victim blaming and gaslighting. Also, Christian Ex-Bahai still doesn’t understand what gaslighting means. Now, let’s look at your particular kind of white duplicity and dishonesty, one that people of color deal with 24/7 in a multitude of contexts with always the same reactions from you people: DENIAL and gaslighting.

  1. You brown-nosed on the very first comment of this post https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/comments/cxhzog/measures_to_restore_civility/ . It was after your stupid comment which I got rid of you from the moderation of realexbahais because at this point you have demonstrated that you are an asshole not to be trusted. So you have yourself to blame, and the facts demonstrate that the betraying was all your own — not mine. I cut weak links and don’t keep them.

  2. As I have maintained for years, the superstructure and bases of Bahaism is rooted in the white Anglo-Saxon global imperial project with its capitalism. I began the podcast by offering the quote from De Tocqueville that speaks to precisely what is driving people like you, Christian Ex-Bahai as well as Scott Hakala. Then I offered social psychological analyses showing that people like you and Christian Ex-Bahai are really spiritual tourists and how what you people understand by “pluralism” is merely free market ideology masquerading as something else. I offered the link to Joseph Massad’s latest book that addresses these very same issues. All of these points you and your Evangelical Christian friend have ignored in almost exactly the same kind of terms that Baha’i cultists ignore points.

  3. Which leads me to this point: indeed, while it is not enough to merely “bash Baha’ism”, without addressing the base and superstructure from which Bahaism subsists, this “bashing” is only telling a part of the story. I agree. But you are not interested in the other side of the story because it indicts your entire society and way of life as being what fuels the Haifan Baha’i cult because your interests (per your UU adherence) lies with perpetuating the white middle-class Anglo-Saxon imperial fallacy in its “liberal” form via the UU packaging. In other words, you are peddling Americanism, which is the real enemy here with Bahaism merely being one of its many colonial franchises, hence why my approach to these questions makes people like yourself unconformable and thus makes your own approach to “bashing Bahaism” ultimately irrelevant, only playing into the system’s hands, and more of the same.

  4. Repeatedly you have made Islamophobic statements and asides. The fact that you now call me an “extremist” also now reinforces the fact and goes to the very heart of the white racism that animates your thinking about literally all of these issues and why you cannot be an ally to what I am about. Be that as it may, there is no such thing as reverse bigotry or reverse racism. Here is why. Learn something https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw_mRaIHb-M .

__________________

It is clear that EVERYTHING in that statement in red above is a case of victim blaming, much like what was done to my friend by her ex-husband and her mother! I also think, BTW, that my ex-wife Cheri is a case of this messed up attitude.

FUK ALL VICTIM BLAMERS!

Abdu’l-Baha’s Shrine Burns to the Ground

Look at this:

For some background of this, see:

The Desperation of the Baha’is as the 100th Anniversary of the Death of Abdu’l-Baha Approaches

Even when the construction was going smoothly, it looked so STUPID!

Two videos about this were posted on YouTube:

One idiot said on the second video:

Not sure where this is but not looking like holy land. the shrine being built of Abdulbaha is in holy land.pass

Meanwhile:

More idiots said things like:

It’s a temporary setback. There’s no need to be.

___________________

With fire he tests the iron and gold He tests us

_____________

“Were it not for calamity, how would the sun of Thy patience shine, O Light of the worlds?” – Lawh-i-Qad-Ihtaraqa’l-Mukhlisun (Fire Tablet, Bahá’u’lláh)

May Bahá’u’lláh guide us through this dark period and may He restore the Master’s Shrine and the Twin Holy Houses, amen.

_____________________

Stumbling blocks into stepping stones.

_________________

Crisis and victory

___________________

More like crying and idiocy, amirite?

As for me, I said:

They really can’t take a hint, can they? Like the death of Shoghi Effendi wasn’t evidence enough that their religion was not credible?!

 

A New Trend on YouTube: Bashing Narcissists

Ever since Donald Trump became President of the USA, people who are disgusted with his incredible sense of entitlement have wanted to give him and every other selfish asshole a kick in their faces!

Recently, YouTube users have begun to post stories depicting such people and how they were dealt with.

Here is an example from a channel titled “Apple Texts”, featuring one sister betraying another:

or this one of a mother wanting to be a parasite on her son and his wife:

For more videos like that, go to the channel:   https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgkQeV7CxSeKHei7V9esEBw

Another channel with such videos is Feel Good Story: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoSRJRAOsBODe2b63EXNhqg

Here is a story of a greedy moocher taking advantage of family members:

And another of a mother-in-law trying to reduce her son’s wife to slavery:

After watching many of these videos, I got in on the trend too, with this episode of the Debbie and Carrie Show:

That was fun to make, wasn’t it?

Now we just need to make such stories always end that way in real life!

Battling with Wahid Azal on Vimeo too

Having won my fight with Wahid Azal over my YouTube channel (it was restored on December 6), I focused on the podcast he and I made together that I suspected all along was the real target of his efforts to suppress me. So I uploaded another copy of it to my channel on Vimeo (the same channel I posted most of my “Debbie and Carrie” episodes to during my exile from YouTube) and then announced what I had done in r/exbahai.

And what happened next was no surprise!

Dear Dale Husband:

Your video titled “Podcast with Wahid Azal” (https://vimeo.com/654107711) was removed on Dec 8, 2021 in response to a takedown notice submitted by N. Wahid Azal based on “FSO content” pursuant to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (“DMCA”).

Why did this happen?

We removed your video because a third party claims that your video infringes its copyright. The DMCA requires Vimeo to remove allegedly infringing content upon receipt of a valid takedown notice.

Who submitted this takedown?

The takedown notice was sent by:
Copyright Holder: N. Wahid Azal

Can I challenge this removal?

If you believe that the third party claim was mistaken, you may challenge it by filing a counter-notification form, available here: https://vimeo.com/dmca#counter_notification. Please read our full DMCA policy for more information on the counter-notification process. Alternately, you may contact the copyright holder (or representative) directly and ask them to withdraw their claim.

Will anything happen to my Vimeo account status?

This takedown will count as a copyright “strike” against your account. If you receive three unresolved copyright strikes, we will disable your account under our repeat infringer policy: https://vimeo.com/dmca#repeat_infringer.

You can review any copyright strikes your account receives here: https://vimeo.com/settings/videos/dmca.

You can also learn more about dealing with DMCA strikes in our Help Center here: https://help.vimeo.com/hc/en-us/sections/203914978-DMCA

We strongly suggest that you carefully review the remaining videos in your account to make sure there are no videos that may infringe upon the rights of others. If you are in doubt as to whether a particular video infringes upon another’s rights, you should remove it. Finally, you should ensure that all future videos you upload do not infringe any other person’s rights.

Sincerely,<br />Vimeo.com, Inc.

So it was confirmed, he was desperate to get rid of that podcast!

Naturally, I fought back as a matter of principle. And that led to this interesting exchange:

Aaron (Vimeo Trust & Safety)

Dec 9, 2021, 6:10 AM EST

Hi,Thanks for reaching out.

It looks like your video was removed because Vimeo received an official notice of copyright infringement for it. We are required by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (“DMCA”) to remove videos when we receive takedown notices from the copyright owner or their agent.

This takedown notice was made regarding:

“Podcast with Wahid Azal” (https://vimeo.com/654107711) was removed on Dec 8, 2021 due to a claim by N. Wahid Azal based on “FSO content”

DMCA Claimant(s)

N. Wahid Azal

If you believe that your material has been removed by mistake or misidentification, you might be able to talk to the copyright owner who made the complaint and convince them to retract their notice.

Alternately, you may be able to provide VIMEO with a counter-notification through our online tool: https://vimeo.com/dmca/counter

If you have any doubts or questions about the counter-notification process, we recommend that you consult your legal counsel. THERE MAY BE SERIOUS LEGAL CONSEQUENCES IF THIS FORM IS MISUSED.

You should not re-upload the material, as further complaints against you could result in removal of your account.

You can find more information about your copyright strikes and past DMCA notices here: https://vimeo.com/settings/videos/dmca

You can learn more about the DMCA process on Vimeo here: https://help.vimeo.com/hc/en-us/sections/203914978-DMCA

Sincerely,
Aaron
Trust & Safety

________________

Dear Aaron,
Thanks for your reply.
Since I am clearly a copyright owner of the video that was taken down (it features my voice and written lines, plus it has my Circle H logo on it which belongs only to me), I am confident that N. Wahid Azal won’t sue me in court without the case instantly being thrown out for lacking legal merit. I hope the video will be restored on Vimeo in a few weeks. Please let me know if that happens.
Dale Husband
_________________

Rohit (Vimeo Trust & Safety)

Dec 9, 2021, 10:48 PM EST

Hi,We are in receipt of your counter-notification.

In accordance with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (“DMCA”), 17 U.S.C. § 512(g)(2) (B), we have informed [Wahid Aza] that a counter notification has been filed claiming that the material originally located at [https://vimeo.com/654107711] (the “Material”) was erroneously removed from Vimeo.

Within ten (10) business days, Vimeo may receive notice that a court action has been filed regarding the Material. If we receive such notice, Vimeo will be unable to restore the Material. If we do not receive such notice within this period of time, Vimeo will restore the Material as soon as practicable.

Sincerely,
Rohit

_______________

Dear Rohit,
Thank you for the update.
Below are screenshots from when Wahid Azal posted in the exbahai subreddit about the podcast in question. As you can see, his claim in the present day that he owns exclusively the copyright to the podcast is disproved by the fact that the podcast’s original title has MY name in it and its thumbnail had MY Circle H logo on it. I have also included a full sized pic of the logo, complete with my name and a copyright symbol on it. When Wahid Azal put my logo on that podcast, it was legally made mine and his attempts to suppress the material years later by filing false copyright claims against it on both YouTube and Vimeo violate MY intellectual property rights.
Dale Husband
Podcast1
Podcast2
Podcast3
circleh1 with copyright
___________________

Rohit (Vimeo Trust & Safety)

Dec 10, 2021, 2:56 AM EST

Hi Dale,Thanks for the clarification!

As a platform for user-generated content, our obligations and procedures for dealing with claims of copyright infringement are governed by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (“DMCA”), which requires us to remove videos when the copyright owner (or their agent) send us a formal takedown notice.

There may be cases where they are unaware of the fact that the uploader actually has a license. When that happens, the DMCA provides a remedy in the form of a formal counter-notification.

We have considered your counter-notice and processed the same.

Sincerely,
Rohit

__________________

Dear Rohit,
If you want damning proof of what a liar and a hypocrite Wahid Azal is, just look at this video on your own platform:
Podcast4

That video, like many others he made, contains slander against me……and he also put MY Circle H logo on it!
I want it removed!
Dale Husband
__________________

Rohit (Vimeo Trust & Safety)

Dec 10, 2021, 4:09 AM EST

Hello,
 
While we cannot speak to the truth or veracity of your claims or allegations, the content to which you refer has been removed from vimeo.com, as it violates the Terms of Service of our website.
 
This letter, and the actions taken as described herein, do not and shall not constitute or be construed as an admission of liability or wrongdoing whatsoever on our part or the part of any Vimeo member or user, and do not constitute and shall not be deemed to constitute any waiver, release or impairment of any kind of any of our rights available to us at law or in equity, all of which are hereby expressly reserved.
 
Furthermore, this letter, and the actions taken as described herein do not constitute, and shall not be construed as, an agreement or course of dealing by us to in the future take any action or refrain from taking any action.
 
Finally, please note that, if you feel threatened, harassed or believe that a crime has been committed, we recommend that you contact local law enforcement immediately or, at your own discretion, an attorney.
 
We trust that this concludes this matter.

Sincerely,
Rohit

____________________

Dear Rohit.
Yes, I am quite satisfied, for now. Not to mention impressed at the swiftness of your response!
Soon enough I will continue my battle with Wahid Azal to get that podcast he and I made together back so I can use it to completely discredit him and prove what a two-faced backstabber he has been for many years. That’s why he is desperate to suppress that material. But that’s not your fight, of course…..you and the other admin at both YouTube and Vimeo are merely the referees.
Dale Husband
___________________

Rohit (Vimeo Trust & Safety)

Dec 10, 2021, 4:27 AM EST 
 
You’re very welcome!  
 
Please don’t hesitate to contact us with any further questions or concerns.

Sincerely,
Rohit

_______________

And THAT is why I now think Vimeo is the better platform for posting videos on. They are FAR more responsive to their users than YouTube ever was!

Defeating Wahid Azal again!

See this:

Before that, I got these e-mails:

Dear Dale Husband,

In accordance with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, we’ve completed processing your counter notification.

The following videos have been restored unless you have deleted them:

Dear Dale Husband,

In accordance with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, we’ve completed processing your counter notification.

The following videos have been restored unless you have deleted them:

I was certain that “Nawir Abu Yasser”, who filed the copyright claims against those two videos, was a pseudonym being used by Wahid Azal. My investigation of the blog used against me led to these screenshots:

Gatehood1

Gatehood2

Gatehood5

Gatehood6

Gatehood7

Gatehood8

Fake person, fake blog, fake copyright claims. A clear case of FRAUD!

But I wasn’t done. As soon as my YouTube account was restored, I was so determined to face Wahid Azal in a legal battle directly that I filed another counter notification against the one remaining video he had flagged with his OWN NAME to suppress!

Dear Dale Husband,

Thank you for your counter notification. It has been forwarded to the party that sent the takedown notification.

Keep in mind that by submitting this counter notification, you’ve initiated a formal legal dispute process. As such, YouTube will handle this process in accordance with the law. This process takes some time, so we kindly ask for your patience.

Upon forwarding your counter notification to the claimant, we will allow them 10–14 business days from this date to respond with evidence that they have taken court action against you to prevent the reinstatement of the video(s) in question.

If we receive no response, after that time period your videos will be restored and the associated penalties on your account will be resolved.

You will receive updates in this email thread about your counter notification’s status. You can also check its status within your Video Manager. Though no response is required of you, please respond directly to this message should you choose to provide us with any further information.

– The YouTube Team

Counter Notification as follows:

Videos included in counter notification:

Display name of uploader: Dale Husband

The video was a direct collaboration between me and Wahid Azal back when he and I were on friendly terms, before he backstabbed me and the rest of the exBaha’i community in reddit, which he was later expelled from for disruptive conduct. I wrote the questions and he answered them as part of an interview process. By definition, a video that is a product of two or more YouTube users belongs to ALL of them and for one to claim exclusive copyright over the content is an act of FRAUD against the other(s) and against YouTube. Wahid Azal wants to erase any evidence that he and I were friends because his betrayal of me (which I documented in other videos and blog entries) destroys his credibility as a religious leader. He has sent threats, both personal, and legal, against me in an effort to frighten me. Do NOT enable his abuse! https://dalehusband.com/2019/08/17/a-podcast-interview-featuring-myself-and-wahid-azal/

I swear, under penalty of perjury, that I have a good faith belief the material was removed due to a mistake or misidentification of the material to be removed or disabled.

I consent to the jurisdiction of the Federal District Court for the district in which my address is located, or if my address is outside of the United States, the judicial district in which YouTube is located, and will accept service of process from the claimant.

Dale Husband

Then I took the copy of the video stored on my computer and uploaded it to my account on Vimeo:

https://vimeo.com/654107711

Keep in mind that for over two years, Azal has been demonizing me first as a racist, then as a pedophile and finally as suicidal.

  1. I’ve been anti-racist since I was a child, despite being a white person brought up in a southern state (Texas) and even being originally a Southern Baptist. I was smart and ethical enough to see that racism (and other forms of bigotry) was just bullshit that could never be excused! And I have made many, MANY, MANY statements damning racism.
  2. As for pedophilia, several years ago I knew a little girl who was molested by someone that she and I both knew and that, plus knowing a right-wing extremist politician (Roy Moore) was a pervert sexually assaulting underaged girls when he was younger drove me to denounce him and others like him in a blog entry……which Wahid Azal then used to try to “prove” I was myself a pedophile!  That’s as absurd as using Adolph Hitler’s book Main Kamph to prove he was a Zionist.
  3. His claim I was suicidal was another attempt to depict me as weak after the pedophile angle was debunked. My cousin Jim Williams did die by suicide over a decade ago. And it was in his memory that I made this video:

So insulting actual victims of racism, pedophilia, and suicide by calling ME a racist, a pedophile and suicidal is something only a profoundly immature, amoral and TOXIC person would ever do!

zhs5kz6132q31

Azal has denied that he and I were ever truly friends, since if I was indeed as horrible as he has claimed, how could he and I have been involved with each other? That podcast featuring both of us proves him to be a liar, full stop!

Azal has painted himself into a corner he cannot get out of and the only way he can retain any credibility he might have had (not that he ever had much, really) is to completely suppress all the evidence of his dealings with me in a friendly manner. But as long as I live and have access to my computer files and the internet anywhere, he cannot succeed!

My guess is that as both himself and “Nawir Abu Yasser” he tried to get me banned quickly from YouTube by flagging three of my videos for copyright infringement. YouTube must have been suspicious of what was happening from the start, because those initial attempts only got me two copyright strikes, not three that was needed to shut down my account. As a result, I had time to issue counter notifications on two of the three videos attacked and also took YouTube’s “Copyright School” that would allow the copyright strikes against me to be removed in a few months. So in desperation, Azal flagged one more video, my podcast interview with him! But since that video clearly belongs to me too, Azal has legally sealed his fate!

My ultimate goal is at least one of two things:

  1. Sue him directly in court for harassment, defamation, theft of intellectual property, and fraud and collect damages in a large enough amount to bankrupt him.
  2. Get him banned from YouTube, permanently!

Wish me luck! 😀

Update:  Wahid Azal issued another phony copyright claim against the copy of the podcast he and I made together that I uploaded on Vimeo, also getting it taken down. He also made some interesting assertions in comments he tried to place on my blog.

Liar9

But the reality, as revealed by screenshots of a conversation between him and me via Facebook Messenger in 2019, destroy completely his claims against me once and for all!

Liar1

Liar2

Liar3

Liar4

Liar5

Liar6

Liar7

Liar8

We Americans have a term for people like Wahid Azal who pull two-faced shit like this!

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Indian-Giver

Wahid Azal is trying to get me banned from YouTube

I have just been informed that he has made completely false copyright claims against me for videos I made that contain original content, specifically criticism of his actions on reddit back in 2019. It is clear that he is trying to suppress those videos because they have damaged his reputation. But telling the truth about someone, no matter how disgraceful his behavior may be, is always justified and must never be suppressed as a matter of integrity.

Here are screenshots into my YouTube account documenting Azal’s latest act of treachery:

Censorshit1Censorshit2Censorshit3Censorshit4

I am confident that YouTube will soon recognize at least two of the copyright claims for what they really are and restore the two videos I filed counter-notices on: “Betrayed by Wahid Azal” and “Update about Wahid Azal”. I chose not to contest the claim on the third video, “Wahid Azal prays for the coronavirus to kill people”, because it does seem to have a valid point, but the first two certainly do not!

Update: I found the basis for the copyright claim:

https://gatehood.com/an-update-on-brett-hart/

And it is a copy of what I made, but it is backdated to make it look like it was made first. Clever bastard, that Wahid Azal, but now I have a basis for a counter claim against him!

Not all Bayanis are @$$#0l&$, it seems

It is unfortunate that I first learned about the Bayani/Babist religion from the psychotic backstabber known as Wahid Azal. His betrayal of the exBaha’i community in reddit and of me personally colored my opinion of the Bayani religion itself, causing me to assume that the Bayanis as a whole deserved nothing but eternal damnation for their acts of treachery against others.

Now I’ve had to rethink that assumption, thanks to a friend I made in Facebook known as Paul Schuhl or Pawel Szul.

This is his Facebook profile:   https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100013306660871

This is his blog on WordPress:   https://religionofbayanuk.wordpress.com/

And this is his new group on Facebook to promote his interpretation of Babism:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/3089069504457427/

Naturally, Wahid Azal and his toxic cultists went after him once they learned of what he was doing. Some of their attacks are documented on Schuhl’s blog:

https://religionofbayan.wordpress.com/2021/11/12/wahid-azal-opponent-spits-venom-at-me-pawel-szul/

(Note: Schuhl included an exact copy of my own blog entry defending myself against Wahid Azal’s lies: https://dalehusband.com/2020/05/12/wahid-azal-and-his-bayani-gang-hit-a-new-low/ .)

https://religionofbayan.wordpress.com/2021/11/13/wahid-azal-attacks-me-again-and-now-also-shaykh-plato/

https://religionofbayan.wordpress.com/2021/11/14/insulting-my-person-by-wahid-azal-sect-god-forgive-them-for-they-know-not-what-they-do/

After looking into his Facebook group and seeing what a war zone it had become, I advised Schuhl: “you should identify and expel all the known followers of Wahid Azal from it.

And in case anyone says his doing that is censoring opinions critical of him, it should be noted that  on NONE of Wahid Azal’s videos on YouTube are comments by others allowed. So NO ONE can directly confront him about his many lies. Since he censors opposing opinions on his YouTube channel, he and his followers shouldn’t complain about being expelled from any place they are disruptive in, whether it is a Facebook group, or the ExBahai subreddit!

 

The Hilarious Discrediting of DavidBinOwen

So last blog entry I dealt with the Beavis of reddit. Now it’s time to go after its Butt-Head!

Take a look at this:

I’ve been an inactive Baha’i since about college… 15 years or so? I married a non-Baha’i who is a lovely person and does his best to do right by his actions but is generally an atheist with some agnostic considerations. We have two young kids now (5 and 2) and this is about the time when I would have considered starting them in Baha’i classes if it weren’t for COVID… except…

There’s a reason I’ve been inactive. Ever since I was engaged to my husband of now 12 years, the Baha’i’s in the community I grew up in would immediately ask if he was a Baha’i – not how we met, or what our plans were, and when I said, no he’s not, their immediate answer was “Well, he will be one day.” And I was NEVER, ever out to convert my husband. I hate the Ruhi books – and I’ve done like four of them. I did the first book twice. And it all reeks of brainwashing as opposed to independent investigation of the truth. It felt more like a test than open and honest study of the texts.

My mom is Iranian and I’m like a seventh generation Baha’i on her side, and my dad converted from Catholicism to the Faith. My dad hates the Ruhi books and has pretty much become inactive too other than the occasional Feast. I’ve moved far away due to jobs and graduate school and ended up putting roots in a new, large city. And the community just puts me off. I never realized how unnerving being introduced as a new Baha’i to the community is. Immediately I was jumped upon to introduce myself, and my family, and to drag my non-Baha’i husband along and volunteer my home for events and join a Ruhi circle…

There was so much expectation that I shut down and never went back – and I’m an extrovert so this wasn’t me being overwhelmed by people in general.

What happened to practicing the Faith as opposed to just talking about it to other people? What happened to asking ppl in the community if they need help, and providing it, instead of asking for every ounce of free time a person has left? We’ve moved again within the same city and I’m afraid to reach out to the local chapter here incase I’m overrun. Or get voted onto the LSA, because I have no time or sanity for that – thank COVID for depression and anxiety and other issues.

I believe in most of the tenants of the Faith, but I find it harder and harder to be a “Baha’i” in things other than my own personal ethical and moral codes and behaviors. And if I try to bring it up with Baha’i friends from my childhood… they sort of just don’t know what to do with me and tell me to pray.

I miss having a community. I want my kids to know about the Faith and all the good things Baha’i’s do or at least did when I was a child. Maybe my eyes are just opening to it now, or maybe something shifted around the time I was in college… but I’m so disappointed in our communities and their overwhelming desire to convert rather than serve.

____________

This was later cross posted to r/exbahai:

At the original post. a member named Any-Part4466 picked a fight with the one who made the OP.

NO one should say you have to do anything in order to be a Baha’i. You are free to not give to the Funds and free to not attend Feasts or meetings as you wish. NO one says you should devote excessive time to the Faith in service if you do not want to. That being said, I have learned from personal experience that there is a spiritual price one pays for being inactive and for having negative attitudes towards others and engaging in excessive criticism.

In my experience, most of the problems people have like yours relate to attitudes and expecting things from the community without offering anything in return. In my community, we focus on service to others, including local food banks and shelters for children for abusive homes and other groups as well.

A number of persons in my community do participate actively in the Institute process, of which Ruhi courses are only a part of not the whole, but many (most) do not have much time and some may, at most, attend a devotional or take a Ruhi course maybe once every couple of years. The Institute focus has been on devotional meetings, study circles (which do not have to be Ruhi and have included Kitab-i-Iqan and Will & Testament of ‘Abdu’l-Baha study), children’s classes, and home visits. There is less, not more, focus on conversion than in the past when I first became a Baha’i in the late 1980s and early 1990s, contrary to what you are suggesting.

First, I never have been in a Baha’i community where a Baha’i was expected to convert his/her spouse. There are often some few pushy or nosy individuals in any community (certainly were in the church I grew up in) but you have to just learn to look past them or forgive them or simply tell them appropriately it is not their business.

Second, I find your statements about the Ruhi books completely offensive and contrary to the experience of most Baha’is. There are some elements and statements at times in sections that I disagree with and express that appropriately. They mostly ask open-minded questions, allow for dialogue, emphasize service, and provide a perspective. I have no clue why anyone would feel that they are brainwashing. All materials in school and in a religious community come from a belief and perspective in my experience. In the Baha’i Faith and in the way Ruhi courses are supposed to be tutored, free and open discussion is allowed as long as it does not veer into criticism of others. My sense is that is just a pejorative term people use when they do not like or disagree with something and used far too often and inappropriately.

Third, most Baha’i communities are welcoming in my experience having moved around quite a bit in my Baha’i life of 30+ years. Most Baha’is once they get to know each other are helpful and friendly. Perhaps the real issue is how you present yourself, verbally or non-verbally to other Baha’is and your attitude.

Fourth, there is no “local chapter” in the Baha’i Faith. There are Local Spiritual Assemblies and local communities or groups where no Assembly exists. All LSAs are organized on a citywide basis, not within a city. In larger cities, they sometimes divide the city into clusters for certain Feasts and meeting in order to make for smaller and more friendly, personal feasts and less travel but those are not LSAs. So, therefore, some of what you are saying does not make any sense in the context of the Baha’i community. If you are in a larger city, then worrying about being elected to the LSA with the attitudes you expressed seems strange and odd.

She replied as follows:

My words have certainly struck a cord with you, and I apologize if they have conveyed any sense of an attack on the Faith. It is both possible for me to love the Faith and struggle at the same time. I am hurt and lost and have been brushed off by those in my local and extended communities when I’ve talked about these struggles with the Faith, so I brought them online where I thought maybe I could get more perspectives than quotes from the texts or pressure to do Ruhi. I don’t mean to criticize so harshly, but I do see how my words read as such.

I am regretful my experience with Ruhi has not been yours – I truly wish it had been. But the way the classes I specifically took were run did not lend me the feeling of study but rather of reciting and writing an answer that we were guided to, rather than formed ourselves.

I would like to defend myself that I never said the community demanded these things of me. Expectation and disappointment can be unspoken and no less heavy a burden. A community can be warm and friendly and engaging – and most Baha’i communities are – but even then to be so eager to welcome you that they overdo it. I have also been a part of online Baha’i communities – a Baha’i mother group on FB – and some of them said such nasty things about politics and the LGBTQ community that I had to leave. I’ve known Baha’i’s who beat their spouses and children (I myself was a child at the time).

No community is perfect, and I strive to recognize this in my own community as well as myself – I have not been an exemplary example of a Baha’i since becoming inactive. I give back to my communities in my own way – I serve by teaching when people ask me about my Faith of their own free will, I serve my local community through volunteering and helping my neighbors when they need help with kids or food or rides to healthcare. I don’t often remember my daily prayers and I definitely need to get back into giving to the Fund.

My apologies for not using the word cluster – I couldn’t remember it as I have been inactive for some time so used the next best word choice to describe the smaller communities in a large city. Our local clusters have LSA’s. Maybe not in the cities you have lived in or visited, my birth city only has one LSA, but where I currently live, yes, that’s how it is.

I’m not trying to attack the Faith. I am trying to find someone, anyone to talk to that isn’t going to tell me to pray my struggles away. Your response makes me feel more isolated, more alone, as though as a Baha’i I am not allowed to show any weakness in my Faith. If you are so offended by my struggles, please just don’t respond.

He ignored her pleas and kept attacking her, prompting me and others to confront him.

Later:

Of course, this prompted another battle. And then…..

 

Free speech that promotes disinformation and is just hatred and insults is not worthwhile. It is just sick and degrading.

____________

So you believe in worthwhile (as judged by you) speech and reserve the right to deem others as sick much like DBO. You don’t believe in or support free speech.

________________

I don’t know exactly what DBO believes. I’m not DBO as you have imagined and demonized him.

You can’t complain about free speech and then participate in a subreddit that purports to have no rules, does not apply the rules of reddit consistently, and regularly blocks and bans free speech when the mods don’t like what is being said. Two of the three mods on the exbahai subreddit do not tolerate free speech because they have banned numerous persons there over time, most on false pretenses because they committed far fewer offenses than the exbahais regularly commit. So, the whole subreddit is basically a sh$$ show, hypocrisy, and a lie and has gotten worse over time in that regard.

As a Baha’i, Baha’u’llah warned against an excess of speech and clearly indicated some speech is not worthy. That does not mean that I believe in strict censorship, just that a lot of what is said is really offensive and disrespectful and disinformation. We should regulate what we say. Sometimes, I push the limits myself admittedly.

Whoops, he made a boo boo!!!! LOL! DavidBinOwen (aka Any-Part4466) was sockpuppeting, no doubt to get around that so many of us had blocked him!

Which led to this post:

And of course, even after being exposed, the idiot kept on lying.

Any-Part4466

I hope you realize that your post about DBO’s post was bait by him. It just drew attention to my posts and his. It does not really serve you very well in the end. It only exposes further the hypocrisy and inconsistencies on the exbahai forum which bans such content. Also, to the extent a number of the individuals on the exbahai subreddit use multiple accounts at times (and they do), they are being silly.

All the chest beating and bragging is also a riot. Now I’m laughing.

No more needs to be said!

History Repeats Itself in the ExBaha’i Subreddit

Take a look at this:

That was over two years ago. I was reminded of this incident by a fellow member of r/exbahai here:

Where he and I said:

The reddit Baha’is often spy on us and in the past even tried to disrupt our community outright.

Here are some stories of their works:

https://dalehusband.com/2018/04/08/treachery-of-bahais-reddit/

https://dalehusband.com/2018/07/04/muslim-bashing-and-libel-against-ex-bahais-in-reddit/

https://dalehusband.com/2020/07/12/another-fight-with-davidbinowen-in-reddit/

https://dalehusband.com/2020/08/26/another-victory-over-the-bahai-faith-and-one-of-its-bigoted-hypocrites/

______________

I can second that. I’ve even had some of the Azali losers message me after I hurt their little feelings lmao

________________

Yeah, they were a threat to us a couple of years ago after their ringleader was banned from here for telling outright lies about us to make himself look like a genius who alone knew the truth about how the world works, but eventually he was totally discredited and his followers quit coming around here.

_________________

He legit started messaging me when someone mentioned him on the sub and I commented that his beliefs (a cross between Marxism and babies) sounded contradictory. One of the dumbest convos I ever engaged in where he accused me of being a crypto-Baha’i. They’re like Baha’is with crack head energy.

__________

“a cross between Marxism and babies”! What a nice PUNishment for Wahid Asshole, eh?

For the sake of clarity, these are the exact statements that got that dingbat tossed out of r/exbahai forever.

https://www.reveddit.com/v/exbahai/comments/cxdsax/answering_investigator919s_disinfo_part_1/

بِسم الله الكاشف الغطاء

Investigator919 has a huge bee in their bonnet regarding the Bayān, and has demonstrated this bias time again. But it is one of those typical woolly biases that one sees amongst liberal Muslims living in the West who are schizophrenic to the core over the Baha’i issue while then parrot fashion regurgitating the uncritical tripe of some of their more reactionary brethren. Now, it is no secret that both the supporters of the liberal faction of the Islamic Republic of Iran congregating around Hasan Rouhani and the supporters of the Rafsanjani mafia (to which Investigator919 as well as the chief moderator of this subreddit are linked) and the Haifan Baha’is are in an open alliance (which I wrote about publicly here in 2016, https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/05/25/behind-the-politics-of-a-current-brouhaha-in-iran-an-ex-president-ayatollahs-daughter-and-the-bahais/). One of the biggest threats this alliance of convenience perceives — just as the Haifan Baha’is and the Khomeinists of the pre-1979 era did as well — are the Bayāni community. At the time SAVAK, which the Baha’is controlled via its deputy chief Parviz Sabeti (a Sangasari Baha’i), and the hawza realized that Ali Shariati (d. 1977) was in fact a Bayānī and was actually promoting the Bayān via his ideas of revolutionary Islam sans the clericocracy wherein ‘Black Shi’ism‘ indeed represents the hawza and the reactionary mullahs with ‘Red Shi’ism’ standing in for the Bāb and the religion of the Bayān. That certain factions of the IRI and the Haifan Baha’is are in bed together and are protecting each others interests is no longer just a mere theory, and so these two together will pull rank against the Bayān while wheeling in dubious paid trolls to muddy waters even further. On this subreddit we have seen this happen time and again especially when the moderators were openly pulling rank behind DavidbenOwen.

Now, Investigator919 regularly cherry-picks from the Bayān. Yet their technical grasp of both Arabic and Persian as well as the writings of the Bāb in general are quite limited (although that doesn’t seem to matter to those ex-Baha’is passive-aggressively promoting the interests of the church and Evangelical Christianity in the guise of ex-Bahais), so let’s look at what they instanced. Their translation is bolded in quotation marks. First the original text is offered and then my translation follows it with the chapter number bolded with the chapter heading italicized.

“Chapter six of the sixth unit which is about destroying all books but those that have been written or will be written about this Order (meaning the Bab’s creed). (The Bāb, Farsi Bayān, unit 6, chap. 6.)”

الباب السّادس مِن الواحد السّادس في حُكم مَحوْ كلّ الكُتب كُلّها إلّا ما انشئتْ أوْ تنشئ في ذلك الأمر

The sixth gate of the Sixth Unity. Regarding the ordinance [ḥukm] of the erasure [maḥw] of all books, all of them, except what has emerged or will arise in this Cause.

Commentary: The translation offered by Investigator919 is off by miles. First, neither the words هدم or دمر have been used here, both meaning ‘to [physically] destroy‘ something. The word used instead is محو [maḥw] which has a specific context in none other than the ḥadīth kumaylhttp://wahidazal.blogspot.com/2011/07/hadith-kumayl-or-hadith-al-haqiqa-of.html to which the Primal Point constantly made reference and wherein each of the six years of His Manifestation is supposed to correspond to each of its six theophanic sequences. محو [maḥw] occurs in the second theophanic sequence of the ḥadīth kumayl:

محو الموهوم و صحو المعلوم

The erasure/negation of conjecture and the realization of the known.

The nuance is immediately apparent to anyone who actually understands the High Imamology animating the writings of the Primal Point throughout and that He is not actually saying to physically destroy any book but to erase the primacy (i.e. influence) of all books (such as, for instance, the industry of tragicomical nonsense produced by the mullahs for centuries in the corpus of fiqh/jurisprudence, i.e. the same industry of jurisprudential nonsense that produced the wilayat al-faqih and clerical rule in Iran over the past 40 years to which people such as Ali Shariati were sworn enemies because Khomeini and his Guardianship of the Jurisprudent is precisely the consummation of the Black Shi’ism that both Shariati and the the Primal Point unequivocally denounced and tried to prevent).

Continued in Part 2.

________________________________

Let me put you straight, Investigator919. I don’t give a flying monkey’s backside about your power trip or Saman Wilson’s or your territoriality over this subreddit. I have already put the word out far and wide all over the internet about what manner of scum actually manage this place and what dirty politics underlies it all. You, Saman Wilson and whoever yanks your chains belong to the faction of the IRI who are deep in bed with these cultists and you, Wilson and MirzaJan are gatekeping and managing this place on behalf of the Haifans. This nonsense is also going on inside Iran itself as we speak where innocent people who are merely criticizing Bahaism in social media all of a sudden find themselves hauled before Ettela’at (the intelligence ministry) inside Iran itself; and the reason is simple, because scum such as Wilson and yourself (who are more than likely card-carrying Baha’is) are under Rouhani helping the Baha’is within the system. Fortunately there is a long track record for this kind of duplicity by both the Haifans and you Green-Rouhani-Rafsanjani-Ahmadinejad-criminal mafia punks. You can block me from this place. It won’t change the fact that you, your duplicity and that of Wison’s have already been outed publicly, which is why the traffic to this place is daily coming to a grinding halt. Ban me, and, one way or another, I will have this entire subreddit shut down and publicize your real identity, Saman Wilson’s as well as MirzaJan’s all over the internet for the trouble.

You have been warned, and you should know by now that I am not one to be trifled with.

________________

Onlyoneatall Also note that for all their crying and carrying on about doxxing, the corrupt and hypocrital moderators of this subreddit who are in the pocket of your “institutions” have no problems in a non-intervention policy where the doxxing and defaming has me as its target. Anyone else, and they jump up and down becoming sticklers for rules — trigger happy with the banning — which they won’t implement in other cases. This has been the case from the beginning here, especially as you all already know that I am the real enemy of your cult while others are merely playing, so you may want to tell your Baha’i Internet Agency that the double-standard behavior of the mods makes things more than a little obvious and confirms everything I say about how these people roll and who the real identities behind the moderators actually are.

Also, that two defamation posts by the paid troll have been left without intervention also proves what I say about the troll: that this individual has been put up to what they are doing and are paid to do so by the BIA, who actually controls this subreddit with the mods as their gatekeepers, particularly given that the well known racist troll doing the doxxing actually needs the money per their own 2012 article.

https://www.wweek.com/portland/article-19620-notes-from-a-newbie-homeless-portlander.html

______________

He got banned at that point, only to return with another account with which he said:

The truth has already shown itself, and on multiple occasions. Last year in 2018 DavidBenOwen went on a defamation and doxxing spree right here on this subreddit. The mod did nothing. I complained about it, and this individual banned me instead while DavidBinOwen continued to run riot. DavidBenOwn was only recently banned after years of abuse in this place. This has all been a consistent pattern and I have documented it all. Any court that reviewed the situation from beginning to end with the evidence I have would immediately see what I claim, that the moderator of this subreddit consistently rewards perpetrators and punishes the victims of these perpetrators whenever they complain or put up a fight. In other words, the moderators here do what Baha’is have always done best: gaslight since this is a consistent Baha’i modus operandi literally everywhere, not to mention historically located, and the behavior of “Saman Wilson” (not to mention his two dubious sidekicks) only reinforces what I say, i.e. that this subreddit is gatekept and its mods are gatekeepers for the interests of Haifan Bahaism against its actual enemies.

Also, the slap in the face Investigator919 got in the rejoinder here means this individual doesn’t wish to be further humiliated intellectually by me over issues they have no clue about and are actually misinforming the public regarding. But that suits the Baha’is just fine since they have profited for over a century in any skewed presentation of the Bayan — or whenever the Bab has been labeled insane and mentally ill — and it will be damned if anyone who knows what they are talking about sets these cultists and their hangers on straight with actual textual evidence, proper contextualization and analysis. That is the bottom line and why “Saman Wilson” and the BIA see me as a threat because they know that I am committed to ending their proverbial “party” and exposing every last one of their deceptions once and for all.

 
WHAT A FUKED UP SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT! The rules of reddit itself say:
 
Reminder from the Reddit staff: If you use another account to circumvent this subreddit ban, that will be considered a violation of the Content Policy and can result in your account being suspended from the site as a whole.
 

So why was I EVER friends with this sick bastard?

Well, it appears about eight or nine months ago he came back yet again with a new account, named Naw-Cryptographer49. At first, he fooled everyone, even me, but eventually I figured him out. And he and I had a final showdown here six months ago:

Where I started to warn others about his intentions:

Because he is a troll who seeks to disrupt this subreddit using abusive attacks on others disguised as criticism.

Just do what I did when he did it to me: BLOCK AND IGNORE HIM FROM NOW ON.

________________

That set him off, just as I intended!

Speak for yourself. One of the biggest trolls on the scene, bar none, who thinks he owns this place while incessantly pushing the UU cult and his own blog of inane drivel and who doesn’t even know what a hagiography is. Pathetic.

________________

Naw-Cryptographer49 vomited:

Speak for yourself. One of the biggest trolls on the scene, bar none, who thinks he owns this place while incessantly pushing the UU cult and his own blog of inane drivel and who doesn’t even know what a hagiography is. Pathetic.

You know, you are not very good at hiding your true self even when you repeatedly use sockpuppets to get around being banned from this subreddit!

__________________

That con artist also said this to me a while ago:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/comments/m9u6yb/divine_manifestations_according_to_the_bab_and/grw6jyl/

You are a know-nothing fanatic, not to mention a head case, no better than the Baha’is you decry. I am trying to get you to spell out your philosophical position, but you seem not to have one and are merely operating by some pseudo-intellectual remote control of rehashed sound bites and one liners, which makes you as dangerous as any braindead RUHIfied Baha’i. The way you talk when challenged on your BS reveals you to be just another basket case chump circumambulating the trauma around their experience with authoritarian cults like Baha’i. Get over yourself already!

Which only confirmed what I said to him first, which was:

Now that I see you are willing to LIE OUTRIGHT to throw out talking points at me even after I try to end our debate on a positive note, I will have no more to do with you. Once a liar, always to be distrusted from now on!

And of course, stating MORE outright lies at me after I decided to shun him only makes him look more ridiculous.

_________________

The bigot also outed himself as a “Bayani” fanatic here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnThisDateInBahai/comments/m7ul78/march_19_on_this_date_in_1850_the_báb_began_to/

As far as I am concerned, anyone who is a follower of the Bab, who was killed by a firing squad in 1850, is as much of an idiot as any Baha’i. Reason: the Bab’s claim to be the promised one of Shia Islam was forever debunked by his death, and no amount of phony rhetoric, not from Baha’u’llah or even from any Bayani apologist today, will EVER restore the Bab’s credibility.

I like Messengers of God who do not get slaughtered, imprisoned, exiled or exposed as frauds, thank you very much!

_____________

And like the idiot he always has been, Wahid Azal went INSANE at being exposed!

What are you babbling about, you deranged lunatic? Go take your meds and while you do keep your hands off other people’s kids, silly sicko fuck!

____________________

The biggest con artist hereabouts is the 50+ year old INCEL guy with a psychotic sense of entitlement to a subreddit, not to mention a chip on his shoulder the size of Mt Rushmore, who literally has nothing to contribute but the same old, same old rehashes from a stupid blog where he once wrote up embarrassing sicko fantasy blog posts; gets dumped by the very people who tried to rally behind him after they found out about it; deletes the posts on his blog, and then tries to kill himself with the stove! The STOVE! Yeah, everyone knows that story because the moron blabbered it out himself…

You are the greatest clown EVER! This lady said it best: https://groups.google.com/g/talk.religion.bahai/c/pydVNFD3l-Y

_____________________

Of course, I reported all his crap to the mods of the subreddit and they banned him…..AGAIN!  And I gave him a final shot even as I was LMAO:

Message to Naw-Cryptographer49:

Wow! It seems that deja vu is a bitch, isn’t it?

https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/comments/cxhzog/measures_to_restore_civility/

And just because I have written about the ugly issue of pedophilia on my blog doesn’t mean I AM a pedophile, you lying sack of crap!

https://dalehusband.com/2019/05/12/biblical-genocide-and-pedophilia/

https://dalehusband.com/2021/04/02/rape-apologists-round-two/

And stop making up rumors about me. No doubt, you HOPED I would have committed suicide by now after you made up so many ridiculous lies about me that some people started to believe your bullshit (the “if there is smoke, there must be fire” fallacy), but suicide is nothing to joke about and you claiming that about me too is only more proof of your degenerate nature!

Baha’is on Facebook make fools of themselves!

Back in 2019, a Baha’i on “The Largest Bahá’í Facebook Group Ever” made this statement:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2209644753/permalink/10156990348534754/

Ashkon Rowhani Ashraf

Allah’u’abha all!
Just a small reminder of what the House wants each and every single one of us to do NOW:
1. Become friends with all of your neighbours on your street and in your neighborhood. Invite them over to cups of tea and get to know them and go and visit them in their house. Take them a food to enjoy together with your cup of tea.
2. Host a children’s class in your house and invite your neighbours children to all attend. You do not have to run it, u just have to host it.
3. Host a REGULAR devotional gathering in your house. Invite your neighbours and their kids. Share prayers together from the Faith and from other sacred traditions to make it even more amazing. Try and get chants, kids prayer songs etc
4. Help enthusiastic attendees setup regular devotional gatherings in their own homes AND accompany them in this. Help your friend to help their friends to run regular devotional meetings in their house. This process will multiply until the whole world is in a devotional gathering.
4. Host a Junior Youth Class in your House. Invite the neighbours JYs. Once you are friends with neighbours you can tell them about the JY programme.
4. Once the children and and JY start coming then offer to train their parents to become Childrens class teachers and JY animators.
5. Train the new teachers and animators and help them start a childrens class and JY in their own home (if they are far away enough in the neighborhood).
6. Accompany the new teachers and animators on their path of service towards spiritualising our new generation. Help them to do everything you just did i.e. to get them to eventually also train children class teachers and JY animators AND to accompany their new teachers and animators to setup JY programme and childrens classes in THEIR own homes. This process is now growing exponentially.
7. Repeat Cycle.
This is all we have to do. This is all the house wants us to d0. If we do this the whole world will become involved in a core activity. World peace will finally come. The words of God do the work for us. All we have to do is the logistics.
The time is now. Get up stand up for your right to live in a world which is at peace. We can have world peace in ONE generation. How exciting! Are not proud to be blessed with a concrete plan on how world peace can be achieved!? Nobody else is doing this! Only us! So time to get up and stand up for YOUR RIGHT to live in a world at peace.
Allah’u’abha all and may we fill our cups with the blessings which rain down~
What an incompetent list! Note that the writer repeated the number 4 THREE TIMES….the last number on the list should have been 9, not 7. Of course, the number nine is one Baha’is are obsessed with, so that makes the error of the writer even more obvious!
And not all Baha’is who read it were positive in their responses to it.
Richard Genobles

 

We have been doing this for years.Is it working?
__________________

Ashkon Rowhani Ashraf

Hi Richard yes it is most definately working, Rome was not built in a day and the Kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven is no different. Ours is the opportunity to build it! 😮 😮
______________
Richard Genobles

 

These things are happening but no one is coming to them. Do you know the 50% of the people who declare become inactive the first year and since the beginning of Entry by troops the membership in the faith has fallen 17% based on world census.How you ever seen an invitation to a total stranger and have you ever thought there might be better ways.. Dr Peter Kahn said “we are looking for people who make mistakes that way we know you are doing something.” What we need, first, is a solid community foundation. And one of the aspects of teaching is “Proclamation,” that’s letting the people know we ar here. The above comes under “Expansion” but the two, plus “Consolidation” the must work together.
_________________
Ashkon Rowhani Ashraf

 

yes that is exactly right! That is why we must first become FRIENDS with all of our neighbors, then introduce them to the core activities and then invite bless. Blessings~
This reminds me of something I read in the exbahai subreddit a year ago:
She wasn’t fooled and lots of others likely were not either!
Speaking of that subreddit:
Where these comments were made:

The man called “Richard Genobles” firmly contested this BS above, and I realized he is no longer on that Facebook group. It would be nice to know if he withdrew from Faith and joined us here on r/exbahai LOL

_____________

Often it’s the most superactive Ruhiites who end up the most bitter (because they actually believe that stuff is going to imminently change society so it’s a hard fall when they experience how little anyone gives a stuff about it).

I sometimes think the Baha’is are like Daleks who are so incompetent that they can’t even shoot straight and therefore can’t EXTERMINATE anyone!

Did you ever see yourself leaving Christianity?

To directly answer the question, when I was a Southern Baptist, of course not! But I did later!

This question was asked in the exChristian subreddit.

Where one member said:


Definitely not. I was planning to go into ministry to convert as many people as possible to Christianity (wanted them to not go to hell you know). Majored in theology. Studied apologetics aggressively in high school and college.

I am honestly one of the most surprising people to have left the faith considering how deep into it I was.

______________

Then what made you quit?

___________


Christians acted horribly during the pandemic. It started not making sense that horrible people went to heaven while good people went to hell. Then I used my rational thinking skills that I learned in apologetics and my theology degree against the Bible to deconstruct. Figured out pretty quickly that it’s all fake.

__________________

It started not making sense that horrible people went to heaven while good people went to hell.

Maybe because Jesus never taught such insanity?

Then I used my rational thinking skills that I learned in apologetics and my theology degree against the Bible to deconstruct.

It should have been obvious that something was wrong as soon as you read the first few chapters of Matthew and compared them with the first few chapters of Luke. The two narratives CANNOT be harmonized, period. At least one of the accounts must have been made up. And if one, why not both? Quite simply, there is NO reason to assume that Jesus was born in Bethlehem.

You can read about that issue here: Teaching religion dishonestly

____________________

I was always taught that everything in the Bible can be explained. I see now how stupid that was. I was aware of all the errors in the Bible for years, but was extremely proficient in performing mental gymnastics around them.

_______________

When I was a Baptist, I used to laugh at the Mormons for believing in the ridiculous Book of Mormon. Then I stopped being a Baptist. Then I became a Baha’i and defended that religion for years. Then left the Baha’i Faith after realizing it was no better than Christianity!

When you have “faith”, anything goes. It does not matter what your faith is in.

_____________________

mental gymnastics

Which NO ONE should tolerate anymore. Reason: the followers of EVERY OTHER RELIGION also use mental gymnastics to defend their dogmas too. Truth can NEVER be found when you rely on dogmas of any kind.

__________________

Yeah I know. It was honestly ridiculous how damn blind I was, because I was an avid student of other religions much of the time I was Christian. I would always shake my head at the ridiculous attempts people used to defend their obviously flawed holy books, while somehow not recognizing that I was doing the same thing. Part of my deconstruction was that realization, and after that the whole thing unraveled pretty quickly.

 

Anti-Conservative Rants in Reddit

I sometimes think that as a whole, the users in Reddit are WAY smarter than most people. Here are two powerful comments I have just noticed that seem to illustrate that.

Fun… ok no, sad fact:

When slavery was abolished, I feel like a lot of people think it came with asterisks next to the amendment.

But it didn’t .

When slavery was abolished, it instantly made every black person equal to whites under the law.

Same rules applied to white and black people. Owning land. Owning a business. Eating anywhere they liked. This was the intended goal. It’s what those in congress voted and passed and celebrated. Equality.

But the southern states saw the loopholes, and within a few months, enacted the Jim Crow laws, separate but equal pretty damn fast.

The federal government made black people equal.

No caveats no restrictions in the amendment.

Then the states took that right away from them.

On another sad fun fact,

FDR was set to push a new bill of rights, an employee bill of rights.

His speech is something that hits so relevant today. His wants for all citizens and his reasoning as applied to the constitution was something you just don’t get from any politician today.

A snapshot of his speech;

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.”[8] People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens. For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world.

The more you learn of the past, the more you realize that progress could have happened sooner but evil prevailed in the name of “country and patriotism”.

Sad.

Good place to remind folks that conservatism is about hierarchy and a de facto underclass.

Conservatism (big C) has always had one goal and little c “general” conservatism is a myth. Conservatism has the related goals of maintaining a de facto aristocracy that inherits political power and pushing outsiders down to enforce an under class. In support of that is a morality based on a person’s inherent status as good or bad – not their actions. The thing that determines if someone is good or bad is whether they inhabit the aristocracy.

Another way, Conservatives – those who wish to maintain a class system – assign moral value to people and not actions. Those not in the aristocracy are immoral and therefore deserve punishment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4CI2vk3ugk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agzNANfNlTs its a ret con

https://pages.gseis.ucla.edu/faculty/agre/conservatism.html

Part of this is posted a lot: https://crookedtimber.org/2018/03/21/liberals-against-progressives/#comment-729288 I like the concept of Conservatism vs. anything else.


A Bush speech writer takes the assertion for granted: It’s all about the upper class vs. democracy. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/06/why-do-democracies-fail/530949/ “Democracy fails when the Elites are overly shorn of power.”

Read here: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/conservatism/ and here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism#History and see that all of the major thought leaders in Conservatism have always opposed one specific change (democracy at the expense of aristocratic power). At some point non-Conservative intellectuals and/or lying Conservatives tried to apply the arguments of conservatism to generalized “change.”

The philosophic definition of something should include criticism. The Stanford page (despite taking pains to justify small c conservatism) includes criticisms. Involving those we can conclude generalized conservatism (small c) is a myth at best and a Trojan Horse at worst.


Incase you don’t want to read the David Frum piece here is a highlight that democracy only exists at the leisure of the elite represented by Conservatism.

The most crucial variable predicting the success of a democratic transition is the self-confidence of the incumbent elites. If they feel able to compete under democratic conditions, they will accept democracy. If they do not, they will not. And the single thing that most accurately predicts elite self-confidence, as Ziblatt marshals powerful statistical and electoral evidence to argue, is the ability to build an effective, competitive conservative political party before the transition to democracy occurs.

Conservatism, manifest as a political party is simply the effort of the Elites to maintain their privileged status. One prior attempt at rebuttal blocked me when we got to: why is it that specifically Conservative parties align with the interests of the Elite?


There is a key difference between conservatives and others that is often overlooked. For liberals, actions are good, bad, moral, etc and people are judged based on their actions. For Conservatives, people are good, bad, moral, etc and the status of the person is what dictates how an action is viewed.

In the world view of the actual Conservative leadership – those with true wealth or political power – , the aristocracy is moral by definition and the working class is immoral by definition and deserving of punishment for that immorality. This is where the laws don’t apply trope comes from or all you’ll often see “rules for thee and not for me.” The aristocracy doesn’t need laws since they are inherently moral. Consider the divinely ordained king: he can do no wrong because he is king, because he is king at God’s behest. The anti-poor aristocratic elite still feel that way.

This is also why people can be wealthy and looked down on: if Bill Gates tries to help the poor or improve worker rights too much he is working against the aristocracy.


If we extend analysis to the voter base: conservative voters view other conservative voters as moral and good by the state of being labeled conservative because they adhere to status morality and social classes. It’s the ultimate virtue signaling. They signal to each other that they are inherently moral. It’s why voter base conservatives think “so what” whenever any of these assholes do nasty anti democratic things. It’s why Christians seem to ignore Christ.

While a non-conservative would see a fair or moral or immoral action and judge the person undertaking the action, a conservative sees a fair or good person and applies the fair status to the action. To the conservative, a conservative who did something illegal or something that would be bad on the part of someone else – must have been doing good. Simply because they can’t do bad.

To them Donald Trump is inherently a good person as a member of the aristocracy. The conservative isn’t lying or being a hypocrite or even being “unfair” because – and this is key – for conservatives past actions have no bearing on current actions and current actions have no bearing on future actions so long as the aristocracy is being protected. Lindsey Graham is “good” so he says to delay SCOTUS confirmations that is good. When he says to move forward: that is good.

To reiterate: All that matters to conservatives is the intrinsic moral state of the actor (and the intrinsic moral state that matters is being part of the aristocracy). Obama was intrinsically immoral and therefore any action on his part was “bad.” Going further – Trump, or the media rebranding we call Mitt Romney, or Moscow Mitch are all intrinsically moral and therefore they can’t do “bad” things. The one bad thing they can do is betray the class system.


The consequences of the central goal of conservatism and the corresponding actor state morality are the simple political goals to do nothing when problems arise and to dismantle labor & consumer protections. The non-aristocratic are immoral, inherently deserve punishment, and certainly don’t deserve help. They want the working class to get fucked by global warming. They want people to die from COVID19. Etc.

Montage of McConnell laughing at suffering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTqMGDocbVM&ab_channel=HuffPost

OH LOOK, months after I first wrote this it turns out to be validated by conservatives themselves: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/16/trump-appointee-demanded-herd-immunity-strategy-446408

Why do the conservative voters seem to vote against their own interest? Why does /selfawarewolves and /leopardsatemyface happen? They simply think they are higher on the social ladder than they really are and want to punish those below them for the immorality.

Absolutely everything Conservatives say and do makes sense when applying the above. This is powerful because you can now predict with good specificity what a conservative political actor will do.


We still need to address more familiar definitions of conservatism (small c) which are a weird mash-up including personal responsibility and incremental change. Neither of those makes sense applied to policy issues. The only opposed change that really matters is the destruction of the aristocracy in favor of democracy. For some reason the arguments were white washed into a general “opposition to change.”

  • This year a few women can vote, next year a few more, until in 100 years all women can vote?

  • This year a few kids can stop working in mines, next year a few more…

  • We should test the waters of COVID relief by sending a 1200 dollar check to 500 families. If that goes well we’ll do 1500 families next month.

  • But it’s all in when they want to separate migrant families to punish them. It’s all in when they want to invade the Middle East for literal generations.

The incremental change argument is asinine. It’s propaganda to avoid concessions to labor.

The personal responsibility argument falls apart with the whole “keep government out of my medicare thing.” Personal responsibility just means “I deserve free things, but people more poor than me don’t.”

Look: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yTwpBLzxe4U


And for good measure I found video and sources interesting on an overlapping topic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vymeTZkiKD0


Some links incase anyone doubts that the contemporary American voter base was purposefully machined and manipulated into its mangle of abortion, guns, war, and “fiscal responsibility.” What does fiscal responsibility even mean? Who describes themselves as fiscally irresponsible?

Here is Atwater talking behind the scenes. https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/exclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy/

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/religion/news/2013/03/27/58058/the-religious-right-wasnt-created-to-battle-abortion/

a little academic abstract to lend weight to conservatives at the time not caring about abortion. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-policy-history/article/abs/gops-abortion-strategy-why-prochoice-republicans-became-prolife-in-the-1970s/C7EC0E0C0F5FF1F4488AA47C787DEC01

They were casting about for something to rile a voter base up and abortion didn’t do it. https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2018/02/05/race-not-abortion-was-founding-issue-religious-right/A5rnmClvuAU7EaThaNLAnK/story.html

The role religion played entwined with institutionalized racism. https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisladd/2017/03/27/pastors-not-politicians-turned-dixie-republican/?sh=31e33816695f

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisladd/2017/03/27/pastors-not-politicians-turned-dixie-republican/?sh=12df77c6695f

https://www.salon.com/2019/07/01/the-long-southern-strategy-how-southern-white-women-drove-the-gop-to-donald-trum/

Likely the best: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133

Just a couple of brilliant statements I noticed. And they deserve a wider audience.

Silencing the truth is unacceptable, from ANYONE!

A reddit user named MacPark711 tried to bring up a painful topic in the Bahai subreddit. You can guess how far he got with it.

Sorry, this post has been removed by the moderators of r/bahai.
Moderators remove posts from feeds for a variety of reasons, including keeping communities safe, civil, and true to their purpose.

__________

 

Hi MacPark711,

I’m not going to approve this post. It would take a long time for contributors here to address all the specific points you raised. It’s sort of like if you were trying to learn about vaccines and you spent hours and hours on anti-vax videos and forums, and then wanted other people to address/dispel all the misinformation you learned. Here are the books you’ll need to read.

  1. The Kitáb-i-Íqán. This book covers the basic principles and lays the foundation for the teachings/revelation of Bahá’u’lláh. It states God continually provides mankind with revelation direct from God for our education and upliftment. After reading this you should decide if you think Bahá’u’lláh is a messenger of God or not. If you think a possibility exists, you can continue into history:

  2. The Dawn-Breakers for the context and early history of the Faith, centered on the life of the Bab but it does carry forward to some events in the life of Bahá’u’lláh.

After those two works you should have a good idea about the character and purpose of the life and mission of the Bab and an understanding of the place held by Bahá’u’lláh. After that if you still want answers to your specific questions, turn to the Will and Testament of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá and read it carefully. From it you will get an idea about what was acceptable behavior and what was not and you can judge the behavior of those close to Shoghi Effendi, who was following the Will and who was not?

In Summons of the Lord of Hosts you’ll find this passage: “This is the Day that shall not be followed by night, nor shall it be bounded by any praise, would that ye might understand!”

This is a significant promise written in 1868, because the only way to avoid the ‘night’ humanity has always seen following a religious dispensation is for the religious community Bahá’u’lláh has created to remain unified and under a control everyone accepts. You can almost bypass every concern listed simply by asking yourself, is it unified today? Is it under stable leadership?

But, going the long route, you can look next to histories centered on the life and teachings of Bahá’u’lláh, ‘Abdu’l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi. There are very lengthy books about each.

Like The Covenant of Baha’u’llah by Adib Taherzadeh, perhaps?

This books do not answer questions regarding the issues I have brought up. I am trying to do a service to the Bahai faith which is clearly falling part online. Just searching Bahai faith in google or you to leads to many negative pages and videos that need addressing You are contributing to sweeping issues under the rug. The debate over the will of Abdul needs talking about due to some evidence that it was forged. Just “reading” it carefully isnt the answer. I have read it as well as talks about it. I am well versed in it. The issues is the handwriting analyses that was done on it which claims it was alerted. I cant debunk this without being able to find people and information that discredits this. If you think just “reading” the Will will answer peoples questions who want to know if it was forged due to the many many pages and videos online saying it was forced, then you have your head in the clouds. I feel you are helping to hold back the faith. In an online world most new people will look up bahai, see these issues and then just go no further. You need to tackle the big issues as hard as they are. By keeping to put your head in the sand will help nothing. You cant just ask a casual perspective new member to “go read Kitáb-i-Íqán and the dawn breakers”. I myself have read all these books and many many more. Probably more Bahai books and scripture than most active bahais. By not approving this post you will be contributing to holding back growth of the faith as it will hinder my ability to answer tough questions and make good reports and videos on them. I have faced the same issues in bahai groups on facebbook. No one wants to answer the tough questions. Its a shame. I was ready to open some very good discourse on this reddit. Your vaccine analogy is ridiculous. If people were finding out anti vax issues and you were able to ask people info about correct info to dispel these falsehoods would not tackling the incorrect issues be smarter? You seem to think the issues would just go away. Trust me the anti bahai info online is getting huge. Its going to hinder the growth of the faith as these questions are not being answered. Almost 100% of perspective new members will go online for Bahai info. Many will leave. I did and then decided to come back and tackle these issues head on but as always just keep hitting brickwalls. Is this because in people hearts they know these issues are real?

I guess you have had your mind made. Just know I am going to give up my defense of the bahai faith. I am over it. I keep coming across people like you wishing to just “hope it away”. Its not going away unless someone tackles the anti bahai brigade. I hope in your own heart you realize the mistake you are making. I was going to do a full website and youtube giving great debunks to anti bahai issues that are all over the net. These videos and website could have saved potentially thousands of people from walking away of moving on. Its 2021. You cant just tell people to “read the book”. This thinking will kill the Bahai faith…

So MacPark711 went to the ExBahai subreddit instead:

Where I had this to say to him:

He answered:

Thanks. I am on the fence Bahai and trying to make sense of it all. But people like t0lk are simply gatekeeping on a huge public forum and doing a disservice to the faith. Its 2021. People cant hide behind just covering things up and pushing under the rug anymore. Everything is out there online. I can see you are obviously anti Bahai. And thats totally fine. You have that right. I am at least open to some dialogue and now I just wish some Bahais would have the guts to come and tackle the negative Bahai posts online or at least help me in what I wish to do. I dont have enough info or knowledge to do this. Thats why I was hoping to get some Bahais onboard to help me but as you can see everyone just hides and blocks everything. Even worse they couldn’t even reply to my follow up explaining their reasons. t0lk just hides.

“Independent investigation of truth” means “just read and agree to what our books say”. by the sounds of it.

This is all really irritating me.

___________________

The Baha’is will NEVER allow you to ask such questions, not in any Baha’i Community, not in any Baha’i meeting, not at the Baha’i World Centre. You will be asked to leave. Your Membership in the Faith will be removed.

Was S.E. a closet homosexual? Probably so. The witnesses are many. Are they ALL lying? If you believe current Baha’i apologists, yes. I don’t think they were all lying.

Was S.E. lazy and went on 4 month long trips to Switzerland (without his wife) every year? He went on such trips, yearly. Without his wife. Was he lazy? He spent most days writing letters and translating. Why did he go to Switzerland for four months a year? Some say to get away from his wife. Others say to meet his lover, George Townsend. Others say, to get away from the hot Palestine Summers. Maybe the answer is “All of the above”. No way to be SURE unless one finds a letter written by Townsend or Effendi, that is a love letter. No such letter has been found.

Was S.E. a tyrant who excommunicated his relatives over the smallest of things? Answer: THEY thought so. He demanded absolute control over every decision of their lives, including whom they could marry and not marry, where they could go on trips, etc. If they “defied” him, he excommunicated them: including their children.

Did the wife of ‘Abdu’l-Baha forge part of the Will and Testament, making S.E. Guardian? Answer: the evidence is that part of the Will and Testament was NOT written by ‘Abdu’l-Baha. That much is known. Some think ‘Abdu’l-Baha dictated it to his wife or some scribe. Others think it was forged after AB died. Nobody saw the Will and Testament BEFORE AB died except AB and his wife. All we know for SURE is that the section where AB appoints SE as Guardian, is NOT in the handwriting of AB, but the rest of the W&T is in the handwriting of AB.

How can these issues be resolved? Answer: they won’t be. Either way, they won’t be. You have to decide “if” you want to be a Baha’i, and promote the Baha’i Faith, or not. These questions will always be unresolved. You have to choose.

Much to my annoyance, MacPark711 chose……to run away from the discussion by deleting his own post. But the neat thing about reddit is that you can still look up and restore some deleted material. Also, I found that Naser Emtesali had already copied the statement MacPark711 deleted here.

So…….I proceeded to put it ALL back on r/exbahai !

It worked!

Thank you for the restoration. Interesting read as I hit my 1-year anniversary of formal resignation.

(Have not regretted the decision one iota; only sorry I hadn’t done it a few decades earlier.)

May I highlight the staunch baha’i’s, named t0lk, typical and expected reply (in my own words): “read these (excruciatingly) lengthy books–hopefully your brain will be numbed to a level that will keep your critical thinking muscles QUIET.”

_______________

I am actually more upset at MacPark711 for deleting the original post here than at t0lk. I am USED to t0lk being a lying, backstabbing asshole.

MacPark711 needs to wake the hell up! I can state for the record that even if I was still a Baha’i in 2018 (the year I first joined reddit), by now I would have resigned from the Faith because of all the crap I have clearly seen from the reddit Baha’is. They are mostly hypocrites because their Faith makes them so by DESIGN. You can’t save it……..you just have to…….LET IT GO!!!!!

 

Why do religions produce so many hypocrites?

I used to think that hypocrisy in religious communities was exceptional and could be easily dealt with once discovered. Now I’m not so sure.

Look at this discussion:

I need some advice. My family has strong roots to the bahai religion . Both my mom and dad left Iran at a young age during the iranian revolution to practice their religion in America . My dad is part of the spiritual assembly. My parents hosts allot of feasts at our house and are well known in the community. As a kid I was made to go to Sunday school allot and made to attend some of those bahai youth camps . At the age of 15 I had to sign a bahai card in front of everyone at the feast because If I didn’t my parents would be embarrassed and be sad so I signed it . After that day I signed my card I told my dad I really don’t believe in this faith. I could never wrap my head around why Baháʼu’lláh had three wives and women not being able to serve in the universal house of justice. One of the main reasons that turned me off about the faith was the constant discussion of how to get more new followers . Every feast I attended we literally talked about how to get new members and discussing different ways to teach the faith to non believers. In Sunday’s school and in youth camps , this was always the topic for the most part . In spite of all of this I made an agreement with my parents not to officially make myself not a bahai but I let them know I don’t believe in any of this this . The reason I did this is because my parents would really be sad and it would be an embarrassing situation for my dad because he is part of the spiritually assembly . If I wanted to withdraw from the Bahai faith it would be brought up in one of his spiritual assembly meetings. Everyone in the spiritual assembly is my dads close friends and they always go over to each others houses . I’ve been trying to talk to my parents about leaving the faith and I always bring up really good points of why to leave it but they always are in denial and never give me answers to my questions . One day I asked my dad what makes you so sure about this faith and he said my great grandmother met Baháʼu’lláh. They get really emotional after I question the faith in front of them,sometimes angry at me or sometimes sad . They’re in there late 50s right now . My question is do you think it’s too late for them to leave the faith . Do you think they’re too far in it ? I really feel like they’re brain washed . They were taught about the faith at a very young age . Everything around them and all there friends were Bahai. Bahai everything . Do I continue question their faith in front of them or just let them be? Sorry for the bad grammar.

 

I offered some advice, but it is more interesting what others said there.

Wow, okay there is a lot to un-box here. Regarding your parents, yes from what you’ve shared it does seem they’re fully entrenched in their belief system. For you however, you need to ask yourself some questions.

  1. Is it safe to leave?

I don’t know what the finer details your situation are, but I have seen Persian Baha’i parents shun and disown their teenage sons and daughters over this issue. It’s truly heartbreaking. You would have to estimate how they would react to you rejecting their worldview openly, and what the fallout from that might look like. I understand reputation is of importance in Persian culture, and you’re worried what this might do to your father’s reputation. You will need to carefully consider that too when trying to predict how he will react.

2. Is it healthy for you to stay?

On the other hand, you need to consider the toll that living a life that is inauthentic will have on your mental health. I did that for years before I left and I still get emotional when I think of the regrets I have. Mainly regretting going through the motions to maintain an appearance of engagement in something I was starting to have profound disagreements with.

I really hope you’re able to make the right decision for yourself, whatever that may be. While many of us on this sub have differering affiliations now, we all went through difficulties when we started to move away from the faith. Best of luck to you!

Then a Baha’i barged in. A bit of background: This particular Baha’i was so much a contrarian that he was actually banned from the Bahai subreddit, so he went to the exBahai subreddit instead, where oddly enough, the mods there almost never took action against him. The reason for that will become clear soon.

I will defend the Faith a bit:

I could never wrap my head around why Baháʼu’lláh had three wives and women not being able to serve in the universal house of justice.

About the three wives, my view is that a prophet is above his laws. The religious book is there to help guide people to doing good. But if you can communicate directly with God, you do not need to observe what is in the book to do what is good.

As for women on the UHJ, my view is that women are just unfit to be in the highest position of authority. It is in women’s nature to follow whatever is the dominant trend, and this is not good for leading a religion. All moral laws would be compromised if they conflict with trends. For example, if women were on the UHJ, there is no question they would have already declared gay marriage to be permissible in the Bahai Faith.

One of the main reasons that turned me off about the faith was the constant discussion of how to get more new followers . Every feast I attended we literally talked about how to get new members and discussing different ways to teach the faith to non believers.

I think you are perfectly justified in being turned off by these people. But it is not Bahaullah’s writings that tell them to do this, but an insane proselytism culture that now dominates the Bahai community, which views converting others as being the main if not only goal of the Bahai Faith. If you read Bahaullah’s writings, you will find that this culture in no way stems from him. There are some passages where Bahaullah encourages teaching, but there are also passages where he discourages it in some cases. For example, Bahaullah says that you should teach yourself before teaching others. He also says that it is not acceptable for people who are not firm believers to teach. This is the exact opposite of what the Baha’i community does – for example, the entire goal of Ruhi is to trick non-believers into acting as missionaries for the Bahai Faith.

So we went after him!

Pretty sure you are alone in your views on this subreddit

“The prophet is above his laws?” “Women are unfit to be in a high position of authority,” but women and men are also equal? The mental gymnastics you have to do in order to believe what you said is astounding.

I do not think Jesus Christ or Moses would ever believe they were above the Ten Commandments or the Gospel.

You’re telling this to a teen who is about to leave this religion as soon as they can. You’re definitely not encouraging this person to stay in your faith.

Then he said:

I do not think Jesus Christ or Moses would ever believe they were above the Ten Commandments or the Gospel.

One of the commandments is “Thou shalt not kill” and Moses killed people on multiple occasions. Prophets do not follow their own rules for the same reason that a dog owner might make a rule for his dog that he does not follow himself.

Higher beings require less rules. The highest being, God, does not need to follow any rules.

Then I decided to nail him to the wall!

“Rules for thee, not for me” is the very definition of hypocrisy, which Jesus actually condemned.

And since you opened the door for this…..

https://dalehusband.com/2019/05/12/biblical-genocide-and-pedophilia/

https://dalehusband.com/2018/02/24/god-was-a-hypocrite/

When God (and his Messengers) do not follow their own rules, they open the door for rules to not matter at all. For anyone.

And that is why I, as a highly ethical ATHEIST and Unitarian Universalist, don’t need your kind of god-centered religion at all. I DO have strict rules and principles and I seek to obey them in all ways.

https://dalehusband.com/about-the-author/an-honorable-skeptic/

https://www.uua.org/beliefs/what-we-believe/principles