Conservatives among Unitarian Universalists Still Feel Like Victims

Last week I posted this in a Reddit Unitarian Universalist group:

Several days later, this comment was posted there:

Unfortunately we no longer offer better. It is much, much worse at UU. If you are the slightest bit center politically (or worse, right), you will be cast aside. And this is an organization that is supposed to be about faith. It is really a liberal political organization now.

__________________

Really? So when has the UUA NOT been a political organization? If we want to make a better society, why not be political?

I looked at this person’s history in reddit and found these:

Everything you said was spot on. Our congregation and another one we followed were the most racist spaces I have ever encountered and I have lived in the South for the last 20 years. Everyone is judged by their race, not their words, thoughts, or actions. Heinous behavior is condoned, as long as the offender is a “social justice warrior, fighting on the side of truth.” If you are not a left leaning liberal (ideally white and well off), you will never feel welcome. That is evident by the current membership and minorities like myself that have left and now have no place of worship.

I don’t go to congregation on Sunday to discuss whatever MSNBC or Mother Jones are currently discussing. UU is now a political organization and should be striped of its tax exempt status.

________________

I know almost everyone in here (the extreme minority that is left and active in UU) disagrees with the author. I left the church for most of these reasons. When we started, it as an open, welcoming place where all were tolerated and welcomed with open arms. In 2016 when Donald Trump was elected and the UUA assembly debacles that followed, we no longer felt welcome.

I am a conservative (not republican), Asian, non Christian. The tone of the entire organization has shifted more and more left and privileged as time goes on. Look at the UUA Facebook page, it is ridiculous and followers have decreased over the last few years. It’s sad when most posts have no comments. The UUA is increasingly catering to a minority of their members, many of whom do not actively attend the organization anymore.

When a person of color does show up (myself included), it was ridiculous. Our opinions were not valued because they were our opinions, but simply because of the color of our skin. In trying to be more inclusive, the organization became more racist. No non white person (this is literally all rich white UU members seem to do these days) wants to get in a room and watch rich white people flog themselves all day and apologize for transgressions that may or may not have ever happened. It is tiresome and has nothing to do with fellowship. It just makes those members feel better.

I would love to return to a pre 2016 organization or one who actually follows the tenants that we are supposed to. Everyone is welcome, what a joke. The only people that are welcome are rich white liberals.

There may be hope in individual congregations, but my family (everyone else left as well) will never return as long as the UUA at large is committed to spending more time on political matters than ones of faith.

_________________

So you have left the UUs because they are too political. But I wonder if you would have a problem with evangelical Christians in religious organizations being hard-core conservatives, even supporters of Donald Trump and his racism?

No, because you are a conservative yourself! No doubt, if you had your way, there would be NO religious organizations at all representing the left, liberalism, and progressive values at all. RIGHT?!

Liberals like me have been demonized in the media and by Republicans for decades. You just don’t like it when we start to fight back!

So I moved to stop the bullshit. I didn’t delete the offensive comment, but…..

I didn’t post this to start a political fight here, and I won’t allow one here now. This thread will be locked.

A Statement About Mental Disorders and Domestic Abuse.

A friend of mine posted this the other day on Facebook:

Johnny Depp/Amber Heard
 
I was married to someone diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, although that diagnosis wasn’t given until after we separated. I had no idea the nightmare I was living through, all I knew was I wasn’t being treated fairly and I was miserable. One moment he would be sweet and loving, the next he was unimaginably cruel and telling me I was a horrible person. If I tried to confront him about anything ever he would tell me it was my fault, or lie and say it didn’t happen, or he would turn and walk out the door, get in his car and drive away without saying a word. If for some reason he couldn’t get away or couldn’t lie his way out of it he would flip out, which included suddenly screaming at the top of his lungs, throwing things, breaking things, wild accusations, getting in my face, towering over me and intimidating me with his size, just terrifying out of control behavior. Whenever he acted this way he would say I made him do it. It was my fault, for example: I tried to talk to him in the car and I should know to NEVER confront him in a car so it was my fault he freaked out. Or he had to lie because the truth would upset me. The lies were constant. He would lie about anything like a knee jerk reaction, things that didn’t even make sense to lie about. He would “future fake” which is when they promise to do better in the future but really are just stringing you along. He would say whatever I wanted to hear then turn around and do whatever he wanted without any regard to the promises he made. The splitting was the worst. It’s when they view you as all good or all bad, you can’t just be a good person who makes mistakes or made an offhanded comment that hurt their feelings. If you upset them, you are pure evil and doing everything to sabotage their life. Or you are their best friend and greatest most wonderful love. He would swing back and forth between greatest love and worst enemy, sometimes within minutes.
 
I learned that my mother has BPD (undiagnosed, untreated). It’s why I was willing to marry someone with it. He treated me the same way my mother did/does. Even as an adult, when I did something my mother didn’t like, she would go as far as to call my boss on her private cell phone and try to get me fired (this happened 6 months ago – I’m 39 years old and a single mother). She threatened to call my college and get me kicked out when I was 30 years old and paying for my own school because I disproved a point she was trying to make about evolution. Now that they are both out of my life I have learned how amazing life can be. People with BPD drain your soul and your energy. They don’t give AF about how they make others feel, all they care about is their own emotions, like a toddler who can’t comprehend the feelings of others and throws a fit when someone sets boundaries. They tell outrageous lies about the people they’re mad at as a way to justify treating them so badly. I don’t know if they believe the lies. But if they FEEL like you did something they accept it as a fact, whether or not you actually did that thing. I’ve had my mother and my ex acknowledge I didn’t do a thing and say, “But I FEEL like you did.” They will conjure something about you up in their own mind and treat you as if you did this thing that never happened, they will tell people you did something that never happened and even try to get others to treat you like shit for something that you didn’t do. It’s insane to witness. They keep you so energy drained and beaten down that you don’t know how to get back up, and you start to believe you are the terrible person they accuse you of being, and that no one else could possibly love such a person.
 
I’m team Johnny all the way. I know something of what he’s been through and I admire him for his bravery in telling his story to the world. I had no idea what BPD was until a therapist suggested my mother had it and I bought a book about it. It was like someone watched my childhood through a window and wrote it down in this book. My life would have been so much better if someone had shown me sooner.
 
ETA an example of blame shifting and justification for abhorrent behavior. A photo of messages between my mother and I. Read from the bottom up because when you download Facebook messages it puts them newest on top to oldest on the bottom.
 

279482910_5681835778499376_1488123421952092835_n

This reminds me of a statement that was sent to me about 2 1/2 years ago by a former friend of mine who turned out to be my WORST ENEMY!

Wahid Azal addresses his critics, take 2

Neither you, nor Christian ex-Bahai, let alone the dodgy moderators of that place, have correctly addressed a single indictment of your duplicitous behavior. I stand by what I said, and others seem to agree about your lot over there as well https://www.reddit.com/r/BAYAN/comments/cycea7/lets_talk_about_exbahai/ (not that consensus changes anything since facts stand on their own regardless who disagrees or agrees with them). You and Christian ex-Bahai are especially blind to what you say and do. But that goes with the territory of being self-righteous WASPs, so kindly stop playing the violin. Then again, white victim-playing when called out on white duplicitly always plays by the same playbook: reverse narrativization, victim blaming and gaslighting. Also, Christian Ex-Bahai still doesn’t understand what gaslighting means. Now, let’s look at your particular kind of white duplicity and dishonesty, one that people of color deal with 24/7 in a multitude of contexts with always the same reactions from you people: DENIAL and gaslighting.

  1. You brown-nosed on the very first comment of this post https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/comments/cxhzog/measures_to_restore_civility/ . It was after your stupid comment which I got rid of you from the moderation of realexbahais because at this point you have demonstrated that you are an asshole not to be trusted. So you have yourself to blame, and the facts demonstrate that the betraying was all your own — not mine. I cut weak links and don’t keep them.

  2. As I have maintained for years, the superstructure and bases of Bahaism is rooted in the white Anglo-Saxon global imperial project with its capitalism. I began the podcast by offering the quote from De Tocqueville that speaks to precisely what is driving people like you, Christian Ex-Bahai as well as Scott Hakala. Then I offered social psychological analyses showing that people like you and Christian Ex-Bahai are really spiritual tourists and how what you people understand by “pluralism” is merely free market ideology masquerading as something else. I offered the link to Joseph Massad’s latest book that addresses these very same issues. All of these points you and your Evangelical Christian friend have ignored in almost exactly the same kind of terms that Baha’i cultists ignore points.

  3. Which leads me to this point: indeed, while it is not enough to merely “bash Baha’ism”, without addressing the base and superstructure from which Bahaism subsists, this “bashing” is only telling a part of the story. I agree. But you are not interested in the other side of the story because it indicts your entire society and way of life as being what fuels the Haifan Baha’i cult because your interests (per your UU adherence) lies with perpetuating the white middle-class Anglo-Saxon imperial fallacy in its “liberal” form via the UU packaging. In other words, you are peddling Americanism, which is the real enemy here with Bahaism merely being one of its many colonial franchises, hence why my approach to these questions makes people like yourself unconformable and thus makes your own approach to “bashing Bahaism” ultimately irrelevant, only playing into the system’s hands, and more of the same.

  4. Repeatedly you have made Islamophobic statements and asides. The fact that you now call me an “extremist” also now reinforces the fact and goes to the very heart of the white racism that animates your thinking about literally all of these issues and why you cannot be an ally to what I am about. Be that as it may, there is no such thing as reverse bigotry or reverse racism. Here is why. Learn something https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw_mRaIHb-M .

__________________

It is clear that EVERYTHING in that statement in red above is a case of victim blaming, much like what was done to my friend by her ex-husband and her mother! I also think, BTW, that my ex-wife Cheri is a case of this messed up attitude.

FUK ALL VICTIM BLAMERS!

Abdu’l-Baha’s Shrine Burns to the Ground

Look at this:

For some background of this, see:

https://dalehusband.com/2020/11/25/the-desperation-of-the-bahais-as-the-100th-anniversary-of-the-death-of-abdul-baha-approaches/

Even when the construction was going smoothly, it looked so STUPID!

Two videos about this were posted on YouTube:

One idiot said on the second video:

Not sure where this is but not looking like holy land. the shrine being built of Abdulbaha is in holy land.pass

Meanwhile:

More idiots said things like:

It’s a temporary setback. There’s no need to be.

___________________

With fire he tests the iron and gold He tests us

_____________

“Were it not for calamity, how would the sun of Thy patience shine, O Light of the worlds?” – Lawh-i-Qad-Ihtaraqa’l-Mukhlisun (Fire Tablet, Bahá’u’lláh)

May Bahá’u’lláh guide us through this dark period and may He restore the Master’s Shrine and the Twin Holy Houses, amen.

_____________________

Stumbling blocks into stepping stones.

_________________

Crisis and victory

___________________

More like crying and idiocy, amirite?

As for me, I said:

They really can’t take a hint, can they? Like the death of Shoghi Effendi wasn’t evidence enough that their religion was not credible?!

 

The Hilarious Discrediting of DavidBinOwen

So last blog entry I dealt with the Beavis of reddit. Now it’s time to go after its Butt-Head!

Take a look at this:

I’ve been an inactive Baha’i since about college… 15 years or so? I married a non-Baha’i who is a lovely person and does his best to do right by his actions but is generally an atheist with some agnostic considerations. We have two young kids now (5 and 2) and this is about the time when I would have considered starting them in Baha’i classes if it weren’t for COVID… except…

There’s a reason I’ve been inactive. Ever since I was engaged to my husband of now 12 years, the Baha’i’s in the community I grew up in would immediately ask if he was a Baha’i – not how we met, or what our plans were, and when I said, no he’s not, their immediate answer was “Well, he will be one day.” And I was NEVER, ever out to convert my husband. I hate the Ruhi books – and I’ve done like four of them. I did the first book twice. And it all reeks of brainwashing as opposed to independent investigation of the truth. It felt more like a test than open and honest study of the texts.

My mom is Iranian and I’m like a seventh generation Baha’i on her side, and my dad converted from Catholicism to the Faith. My dad hates the Ruhi books and has pretty much become inactive too other than the occasional Feast. I’ve moved far away due to jobs and graduate school and ended up putting roots in a new, large city. And the community just puts me off. I never realized how unnerving being introduced as a new Baha’i to the community is. Immediately I was jumped upon to introduce myself, and my family, and to drag my non-Baha’i husband along and volunteer my home for events and join a Ruhi circle…

There was so much expectation that I shut down and never went back – and I’m an extrovert so this wasn’t me being overwhelmed by people in general.

What happened to practicing the Faith as opposed to just talking about it to other people? What happened to asking ppl in the community if they need help, and providing it, instead of asking for every ounce of free time a person has left? We’ve moved again within the same city and I’m afraid to reach out to the local chapter here incase I’m overrun. Or get voted onto the LSA, because I have no time or sanity for that – thank COVID for depression and anxiety and other issues.

I believe in most of the tenants of the Faith, but I find it harder and harder to be a “Baha’i” in things other than my own personal ethical and moral codes and behaviors. And if I try to bring it up with Baha’i friends from my childhood… they sort of just don’t know what to do with me and tell me to pray.

I miss having a community. I want my kids to know about the Faith and all the good things Baha’i’s do or at least did when I was a child. Maybe my eyes are just opening to it now, or maybe something shifted around the time I was in college… but I’m so disappointed in our communities and their overwhelming desire to convert rather than serve.

____________

This was later cross posted to r/exbahai:

At the original post. a member named Any-Part4466 picked a fight with the one who made the OP.

NO one should say you have to do anything in order to be a Baha’i. You are free to not give to the Funds and free to not attend Feasts or meetings as you wish. NO one says you should devote excessive time to the Faith in service if you do not want to. That being said, I have learned from personal experience that there is a spiritual price one pays for being inactive and for having negative attitudes towards others and engaging in excessive criticism.

In my experience, most of the problems people have like yours relate to attitudes and expecting things from the community without offering anything in return. In my community, we focus on service to others, including local food banks and shelters for children for abusive homes and other groups as well.

A number of persons in my community do participate actively in the Institute process, of which Ruhi courses are only a part of not the whole, but many (most) do not have much time and some may, at most, attend a devotional or take a Ruhi course maybe once every couple of years. The Institute focus has been on devotional meetings, study circles (which do not have to be Ruhi and have included Kitab-i-Iqan and Will & Testament of ‘Abdu’l-Baha study), children’s classes, and home visits. There is less, not more, focus on conversion than in the past when I first became a Baha’i in the late 1980s and early 1990s, contrary to what you are suggesting.

First, I never have been in a Baha’i community where a Baha’i was expected to convert his/her spouse. There are often some few pushy or nosy individuals in any community (certainly were in the church I grew up in) but you have to just learn to look past them or forgive them or simply tell them appropriately it is not their business.

Second, I find your statements about the Ruhi books completely offensive and contrary to the experience of most Baha’is. There are some elements and statements at times in sections that I disagree with and express that appropriately. They mostly ask open-minded questions, allow for dialogue, emphasize service, and provide a perspective. I have no clue why anyone would feel that they are brainwashing. All materials in school and in a religious community come from a belief and perspective in my experience. In the Baha’i Faith and in the way Ruhi courses are supposed to be tutored, free and open discussion is allowed as long as it does not veer into criticism of others. My sense is that is just a pejorative term people use when they do not like or disagree with something and used far too often and inappropriately.

Third, most Baha’i communities are welcoming in my experience having moved around quite a bit in my Baha’i life of 30+ years. Most Baha’is once they get to know each other are helpful and friendly. Perhaps the real issue is how you present yourself, verbally or non-verbally to other Baha’is and your attitude.

Fourth, there is no “local chapter” in the Baha’i Faith. There are Local Spiritual Assemblies and local communities or groups where no Assembly exists. All LSAs are organized on a citywide basis, not within a city. In larger cities, they sometimes divide the city into clusters for certain Feasts and meeting in order to make for smaller and more friendly, personal feasts and less travel but those are not LSAs. So, therefore, some of what you are saying does not make any sense in the context of the Baha’i community. If you are in a larger city, then worrying about being elected to the LSA with the attitudes you expressed seems strange and odd.

She replied as follows:

My words have certainly struck a cord with you, and I apologize if they have conveyed any sense of an attack on the Faith. It is both possible for me to love the Faith and struggle at the same time. I am hurt and lost and have been brushed off by those in my local and extended communities when I’ve talked about these struggles with the Faith, so I brought them online where I thought maybe I could get more perspectives than quotes from the texts or pressure to do Ruhi. I don’t mean to criticize so harshly, but I do see how my words read as such.

I am regretful my experience with Ruhi has not been yours – I truly wish it had been. But the way the classes I specifically took were run did not lend me the feeling of study but rather of reciting and writing an answer that we were guided to, rather than formed ourselves.

I would like to defend myself that I never said the community demanded these things of me. Expectation and disappointment can be unspoken and no less heavy a burden. A community can be warm and friendly and engaging – and most Baha’i communities are – but even then to be so eager to welcome you that they overdo it. I have also been a part of online Baha’i communities – a Baha’i mother group on FB – and some of them said such nasty things about politics and the LGBTQ community that I had to leave. I’ve known Baha’i’s who beat their spouses and children (I myself was a child at the time).

No community is perfect, and I strive to recognize this in my own community as well as myself – I have not been an exemplary example of a Baha’i since becoming inactive. I give back to my communities in my own way – I serve by teaching when people ask me about my Faith of their own free will, I serve my local community through volunteering and helping my neighbors when they need help with kids or food or rides to healthcare. I don’t often remember my daily prayers and I definitely need to get back into giving to the Fund.

My apologies for not using the word cluster – I couldn’t remember it as I have been inactive for some time so used the next best word choice to describe the smaller communities in a large city. Our local clusters have LSA’s. Maybe not in the cities you have lived in or visited, my birth city only has one LSA, but where I currently live, yes, that’s how it is.

I’m not trying to attack the Faith. I am trying to find someone, anyone to talk to that isn’t going to tell me to pray my struggles away. Your response makes me feel more isolated, more alone, as though as a Baha’i I am not allowed to show any weakness in my Faith. If you are so offended by my struggles, please just don’t respond.

He ignored her pleas and kept attacking her, prompting me and others to confront him.

Later:

Of course, this prompted another battle. And then…..

 

Free speech that promotes disinformation and is just hatred and insults is not worthwhile. It is just sick and degrading.

____________

So you believe in worthwhile (as judged by you) speech and reserve the right to deem others as sick much like DBO. You don’t believe in or support free speech.

________________

I don’t know exactly what DBO believes. I’m not DBO as you have imagined and demonized him.

You can’t complain about free speech and then participate in a subreddit that purports to have no rules, does not apply the rules of reddit consistently, and regularly blocks and bans free speech when the mods don’t like what is being said. Two of the three mods on the exbahai subreddit do not tolerate free speech because they have banned numerous persons there over time, most on false pretenses because they committed far fewer offenses than the exbahais regularly commit. So, the whole subreddit is basically a sh$$ show, hypocrisy, and a lie and has gotten worse over time in that regard.

As a Baha’i, Baha’u’llah warned against an excess of speech and clearly indicated some speech is not worthy. That does not mean that I believe in strict censorship, just that a lot of what is said is really offensive and disrespectful and disinformation. We should regulate what we say. Sometimes, I push the limits myself admittedly.

Whoops, he made a boo boo!!!! LOL! DavidBinOwen (aka Any-Part4466) was sockpuppeting, no doubt to get around that so many of us had blocked him!

Which led to this post:

And of course, even after being exposed, the idiot kept on lying.

Any-Part4466

I hope you realize that your post about DBO’s post was bait by him. It just drew attention to my posts and his. It does not really serve you very well in the end. It only exposes further the hypocrisy and inconsistencies on the exbahai forum which bans such content. Also, to the extent a number of the individuals on the exbahai subreddit use multiple accounts at times (and they do), they are being silly.

All the chest beating and bragging is also a riot. Now I’m laughing.

No more needs to be said!

History Repeats Itself in the ExBaha’i Subreddit

Take a look at this:

That was over two years ago. I was reminded of this incident by a fellow member of r/exbahai here:

Where he and I said:

The reddit Baha’is often spy on us and in the past even tried to disrupt our community outright.

Here are some stories of their works:

https://dalehusband.com/2018/04/08/treachery-of-bahais-reddit/

https://dalehusband.com/2018/07/04/muslim-bashing-and-libel-against-ex-bahais-in-reddit/

https://dalehusband.com/2020/07/12/another-fight-with-davidbinowen-in-reddit/

https://dalehusband.com/2020/08/26/another-victory-over-the-bahai-faith-and-one-of-its-bigoted-hypocrites/

______________

I can second that. I’ve even had some of the Azali losers message me after I hurt their little feelings lmao

________________

Yeah, they were a threat to us a couple of years ago after their ringleader was banned from here for telling outright lies about us to make himself look like a genius who alone knew the truth about how the world works, but eventually he was totally discredited and his followers quit coming around here.

_________________

He legit started messaging me when someone mentioned him on the sub and I commented that his beliefs (a cross between Marxism and babies) sounded contradictory. One of the dumbest convos I ever engaged in where he accused me of being a crypto-Baha’i. They’re like Baha’is with crack head energy.

__________

“a cross between Marxism and babies”! What a nice PUNishment for Wahid Asshole, eh?

For the sake of clarity, these are the exact statements that got that dingbat tossed out of r/exbahai forever.

https://www.reveddit.com/v/exbahai/comments/cxdsax/answering_investigator919s_disinfo_part_1/

بِسم الله الكاشف الغطاء

Investigator919 has a huge bee in their bonnet regarding the Bayān, and has demonstrated this bias time again. But it is one of those typical woolly biases that one sees amongst liberal Muslims living in the West who are schizophrenic to the core over the Baha’i issue while then parrot fashion regurgitating the uncritical tripe of some of their more reactionary brethren. Now, it is no secret that both the supporters of the liberal faction of the Islamic Republic of Iran congregating around Hasan Rouhani and the supporters of the Rafsanjani mafia (to which Investigator919 as well as the chief moderator of this subreddit are linked) and the Haifan Baha’is are in an open alliance (which I wrote about publicly here in 2016, https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/05/25/behind-the-politics-of-a-current-brouhaha-in-iran-an-ex-president-ayatollahs-daughter-and-the-bahais/). One of the biggest threats this alliance of convenience perceives — just as the Haifan Baha’is and the Khomeinists of the pre-1979 era did as well — are the Bayāni community. At the time SAVAK, which the Baha’is controlled via its deputy chief Parviz Sabeti (a Sangasari Baha’i), and the hawza realized that Ali Shariati (d. 1977) was in fact a Bayānī and was actually promoting the Bayān via his ideas of revolutionary Islam sans the clericocracy wherein ‘Black Shi’ism‘ indeed represents the hawza and the reactionary mullahs with ‘Red Shi’ism’ standing in for the Bāb and the religion of the Bayān. That certain factions of the IRI and the Haifan Baha’is are in bed together and are protecting each others interests is no longer just a mere theory, and so these two together will pull rank against the Bayān while wheeling in dubious paid trolls to muddy waters even further. On this subreddit we have seen this happen time and again especially when the moderators were openly pulling rank behind DavidbenOwen.

Now, Investigator919 regularly cherry-picks from the Bayān. Yet their technical grasp of both Arabic and Persian as well as the writings of the Bāb in general are quite limited (although that doesn’t seem to matter to those ex-Baha’is passive-aggressively promoting the interests of the church and Evangelical Christianity in the guise of ex-Bahais), so let’s look at what they instanced. Their translation is bolded in quotation marks. First the original text is offered and then my translation follows it with the chapter number bolded with the chapter heading italicized.

“Chapter six of the sixth unit which is about destroying all books but those that have been written or will be written about this Order (meaning the Bab’s creed). (The Bāb, Farsi Bayān, unit 6, chap. 6.)”

الباب السّادس مِن الواحد السّادس في حُكم مَحوْ كلّ الكُتب كُلّها إلّا ما انشئتْ أوْ تنشئ في ذلك الأمر

The sixth gate of the Sixth Unity. Regarding the ordinance [ḥukm] of the erasure [maḥw] of all books, all of them, except what has emerged or will arise in this Cause.

Commentary: The translation offered by Investigator919 is off by miles. First, neither the words هدم or دمر have been used here, both meaning ‘to [physically] destroy‘ something. The word used instead is محو [maḥw] which has a specific context in none other than the ḥadīth kumaylhttp://wahidazal.blogspot.com/2011/07/hadith-kumayl-or-hadith-al-haqiqa-of.html to which the Primal Point constantly made reference and wherein each of the six years of His Manifestation is supposed to correspond to each of its six theophanic sequences. محو [maḥw] occurs in the second theophanic sequence of the ḥadīth kumayl:

محو الموهوم و صحو المعلوم

The erasure/negation of conjecture and the realization of the known.

The nuance is immediately apparent to anyone who actually understands the High Imamology animating the writings of the Primal Point throughout and that He is not actually saying to physically destroy any book but to erase the primacy (i.e. influence) of all books (such as, for instance, the industry of tragicomical nonsense produced by the mullahs for centuries in the corpus of fiqh/jurisprudence, i.e. the same industry of jurisprudential nonsense that produced the wilayat al-faqih and clerical rule in Iran over the past 40 years to which people such as Ali Shariati were sworn enemies because Khomeini and his Guardianship of the Jurisprudent is precisely the consummation of the Black Shi’ism that both Shariati and the the Primal Point unequivocally denounced and tried to prevent).

Continued in Part 2.

________________________________

Let me put you straight, Investigator919. I don’t give a flying monkey’s backside about your power trip or Saman Wilson’s or your territoriality over this subreddit. I have already put the word out far and wide all over the internet about what manner of scum actually manage this place and what dirty politics underlies it all. You, Saman Wilson and whoever yanks your chains belong to the faction of the IRI who are deep in bed with these cultists and you, Wilson and MirzaJan are gatekeping and managing this place on behalf of the Haifans. This nonsense is also going on inside Iran itself as we speak where innocent people who are merely criticizing Bahaism in social media all of a sudden find themselves hauled before Ettela’at (the intelligence ministry) inside Iran itself; and the reason is simple, because scum such as Wilson and yourself (who are more than likely card-carrying Baha’is) are under Rouhani helping the Baha’is within the system. Fortunately there is a long track record for this kind of duplicity by both the Haifans and you Green-Rouhani-Rafsanjani-Ahmadinejad-criminal mafia punks. You can block me from this place. It won’t change the fact that you, your duplicity and that of Wison’s have already been outed publicly, which is why the traffic to this place is daily coming to a grinding halt. Ban me, and, one way or another, I will have this entire subreddit shut down and publicize your real identity, Saman Wilson’s as well as MirzaJan’s all over the internet for the trouble.

You have been warned, and you should know by now that I am not one to be trifled with.

________________

Onlyoneatall Also note that for all their crying and carrying on about doxxing, the corrupt and hypocrital moderators of this subreddit who are in the pocket of your “institutions” have no problems in a non-intervention policy where the doxxing and defaming has me as its target. Anyone else, and they jump up and down becoming sticklers for rules — trigger happy with the banning — which they won’t implement in other cases. This has been the case from the beginning here, especially as you all already know that I am the real enemy of your cult while others are merely playing, so you may want to tell your Baha’i Internet Agency that the double-standard behavior of the mods makes things more than a little obvious and confirms everything I say about how these people roll and who the real identities behind the moderators actually are.

Also, that two defamation posts by the paid troll have been left without intervention also proves what I say about the troll: that this individual has been put up to what they are doing and are paid to do so by the BIA, who actually controls this subreddit with the mods as their gatekeepers, particularly given that the well known racist troll doing the doxxing actually needs the money per their own 2012 article.

https://www.wweek.com/portland/article-19620-notes-from-a-newbie-homeless-portlander.html

______________

He got banned at that point, only to return with another account with which he said:

The truth has already shown itself, and on multiple occasions. Last year in 2018 DavidBenOwen went on a defamation and doxxing spree right here on this subreddit. The mod did nothing. I complained about it, and this individual banned me instead while DavidBinOwen continued to run riot. DavidBenOwn was only recently banned after years of abuse in this place. This has all been a consistent pattern and I have documented it all. Any court that reviewed the situation from beginning to end with the evidence I have would immediately see what I claim, that the moderator of this subreddit consistently rewards perpetrators and punishes the victims of these perpetrators whenever they complain or put up a fight. In other words, the moderators here do what Baha’is have always done best: gaslight since this is a consistent Baha’i modus operandi literally everywhere, not to mention historically located, and the behavior of “Saman Wilson” (not to mention his two dubious sidekicks) only reinforces what I say, i.e. that this subreddit is gatekept and its mods are gatekeepers for the interests of Haifan Bahaism against its actual enemies.

Also, the slap in the face Investigator919 got in the rejoinder here means this individual doesn’t wish to be further humiliated intellectually by me over issues they have no clue about and are actually misinforming the public regarding. But that suits the Baha’is just fine since they have profited for over a century in any skewed presentation of the Bayan — or whenever the Bab has been labeled insane and mentally ill — and it will be damned if anyone who knows what they are talking about sets these cultists and their hangers on straight with actual textual evidence, proper contextualization and analysis. That is the bottom line and why “Saman Wilson” and the BIA see me as a threat because they know that I am committed to ending their proverbial “party” and exposing every last one of their deceptions once and for all.

 
WHAT A FUKED UP SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT! The rules of reddit itself say:
 
Reminder from the Reddit staff: If you use another account to circumvent this subreddit ban, that will be considered a violation of the Content Policy and can result in your account being suspended from the site as a whole.
 

So why was I EVER friends with this sick bastard?

Well, it appears about eight or nine months ago he came back yet again with a new account, named Naw-Cryptographer49. At first, he fooled everyone, even me, but eventually I figured him out. And he and I had a final showdown here six months ago:

Where I started to warn others about his intentions:

Because he is a troll who seeks to disrupt this subreddit using abusive attacks on others disguised as criticism.

Just do what I did when he did it to me: BLOCK AND IGNORE HIM FROM NOW ON.

________________

That set him off, just as I intended!

Speak for yourself. One of the biggest trolls on the scene, bar none, who thinks he owns this place while incessantly pushing the UU cult and his own blog of inane drivel and who doesn’t even know what a hagiography is. Pathetic.

________________

Naw-Cryptographer49 vomited:

Speak for yourself. One of the biggest trolls on the scene, bar none, who thinks he owns this place while incessantly pushing the UU cult and his own blog of inane drivel and who doesn’t even know what a hagiography is. Pathetic.

You know, you are not very good at hiding your true self even when you repeatedly use sockpuppets to get around being banned from this subreddit!

__________________

That con artist also said this to me a while ago:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/comments/m9u6yb/divine_manifestations_according_to_the_bab_and/grw6jyl/

You are a know-nothing fanatic, not to mention a head case, no better than the Baha’is you decry. I am trying to get you to spell out your philosophical position, but you seem not to have one and are merely operating by some pseudo-intellectual remote control of rehashed sound bites and one liners, which makes you as dangerous as any braindead RUHIfied Baha’i. The way you talk when challenged on your BS reveals you to be just another basket case chump circumambulating the trauma around their experience with authoritarian cults like Baha’i. Get over yourself already!

Which only confirmed what I said to him first, which was:

Now that I see you are willing to LIE OUTRIGHT to throw out talking points at me even after I try to end our debate on a positive note, I will have no more to do with you. Once a liar, always to be distrusted from now on!

And of course, stating MORE outright lies at me after I decided to shun him only makes him look more ridiculous.

_________________

The bigot also outed himself as a “Bayani” fanatic here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnThisDateInBahai/comments/m7ul78/march_19_on_this_date_in_1850_the_báb_began_to/

As far as I am concerned, anyone who is a follower of the Bab, who was killed by a firing squad in 1850, is as much of an idiot as any Baha’i. Reason: the Bab’s claim to be the promised one of Shia Islam was forever debunked by his death, and no amount of phony rhetoric, not from Baha’u’llah or even from any Bayani apologist today, will EVER restore the Bab’s credibility.

I like Messengers of God who do not get slaughtered, imprisoned, exiled or exposed as frauds, thank you very much!

_____________

And like the idiot he always has been, Wahid Azal went INSANE at being exposed!

What are you babbling about, you deranged lunatic? Go take your meds and while you do keep your hands off other people’s kids, silly sicko fuck!

____________________

The biggest con artist hereabouts is the 50+ year old INCEL guy with a psychotic sense of entitlement to a subreddit, not to mention a chip on his shoulder the size of Mt Rushmore, who literally has nothing to contribute but the same old, same old rehashes from a stupid blog where he once wrote up embarrassing sicko fantasy blog posts; gets dumped by the very people who tried to rally behind him after they found out about it; deletes the posts on his blog, and then tries to kill himself with the stove! The STOVE! Yeah, everyone knows that story because the moron blabbered it out himself…

You are the greatest clown EVER! This lady said it best: https://groups.google.com/g/talk.religion.bahai/c/pydVNFD3l-Y

_____________________

Of course, I reported all his crap to the mods of the subreddit and they banned him…..AGAIN!  And I gave him a final shot even as I was LMAO:

Message to Naw-Cryptographer49:

Wow! It seems that deja vu is a bitch, isn’t it?

https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/comments/cxhzog/measures_to_restore_civility/

And just because I have written about the ugly issue of pedophilia on my blog doesn’t mean I AM a pedophile, you lying sack of crap!

https://dalehusband.com/2019/05/12/biblical-genocide-and-pedophilia/

https://dalehusband.com/2021/04/02/rape-apologists-round-two/

And stop making up rumors about me. No doubt, you HOPED I would have committed suicide by now after you made up so many ridiculous lies about me that some people started to believe your bullshit (the “if there is smoke, there must be fire” fallacy), but suicide is nothing to joke about and you claiming that about me too is only more proof of your degenerate nature!

Baha’is on Facebook make fools of themselves!

Back in 2019, a Baha’i on “The Largest Bahá’í Facebook Group Ever” made this statement:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2209644753/permalink/10156990348534754/

Ashkon Rowhani Ashraf

Allah’u’abha all!
Just a small reminder of what the House wants each and every single one of us to do NOW:
1. Become friends with all of your neighbours on your street and in your neighborhood. Invite them over to cups of tea and get to know them and go and visit them in their house. Take them a food to enjoy together with your cup of tea.
2. Host a children’s class in your house and invite your neighbours children to all attend. You do not have to run it, u just have to host it.
3. Host a REGULAR devotional gathering in your house. Invite your neighbours and their kids. Share prayers together from the Faith and from other sacred traditions to make it even more amazing. Try and get chants, kids prayer songs etc
4. Help enthusiastic attendees setup regular devotional gatherings in their own homes AND accompany them in this. Help your friend to help their friends to run regular devotional meetings in their house. This process will multiply until the whole world is in a devotional gathering.
4. Host a Junior Youth Class in your House. Invite the neighbours JYs. Once you are friends with neighbours you can tell them about the JY programme.
4. Once the children and and JY start coming then offer to train their parents to become Childrens class teachers and JY animators.
5. Train the new teachers and animators and help them start a childrens class and JY in their own home (if they are far away enough in the neighborhood).
6. Accompany the new teachers and animators on their path of service towards spiritualising our new generation. Help them to do everything you just did i.e. to get them to eventually also train children class teachers and JY animators AND to accompany their new teachers and animators to setup JY programme and childrens classes in THEIR own homes. This process is now growing exponentially.
7. Repeat Cycle.
This is all we have to do. This is all the house wants us to d0. If we do this the whole world will become involved in a core activity. World peace will finally come. The words of God do the work for us. All we have to do is the logistics.
The time is now. Get up stand up for your right to live in a world which is at peace. We can have world peace in ONE generation. How exciting! Are not proud to be blessed with a concrete plan on how world peace can be achieved!? Nobody else is doing this! Only us! So time to get up and stand up for YOUR RIGHT to live in a world at peace.
Allah’u’abha all and may we fill our cups with the blessings which rain down~
What an incompetent list! Note that the writer repeated the number 4 THREE TIMES….the last number on the list should have been 9, not 7. Of course, the number nine is one Baha’is are obsessed with, so that makes the error of the writer even more obvious!
And not all Baha’is who read it were positive in their responses to it.
Richard Genobles

 

We have been doing this for years.Is it working?
__________________

Ashkon Rowhani Ashraf

Hi Richard yes it is most definately working, Rome was not built in a day and the Kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven is no different. Ours is the opportunity to build it! 😮 😮
______________
Richard Genobles

 

These things are happening but no one is coming to them. Do you know the 50% of the people who declare become inactive the first year and since the beginning of Entry by troops the membership in the faith has fallen 17% based on world census.How you ever seen an invitation to a total stranger and have you ever thought there might be better ways.. Dr Peter Kahn said “we are looking for people who make mistakes that way we know you are doing something.” What we need, first, is a solid community foundation. And one of the aspects of teaching is “Proclamation,” that’s letting the people know we ar here. The above comes under “Expansion” but the two, plus “Consolidation” the must work together.
_________________
Ashkon Rowhani Ashraf

 

yes that is exactly right! That is why we must first become FRIENDS with all of our neighbors, then introduce them to the core activities and then invite bless. Blessings~
This reminds me of something I read in the exbahai subreddit a year ago:
She wasn’t fooled and lots of others likely were not either!
Speaking of that subreddit:
Where these comments were made:

The man called “Richard Genobles” firmly contested this BS above, and I realized he is no longer on that Facebook group. It would be nice to know if he withdrew from Faith and joined us here on r/exbahai LOL

_____________

Often it’s the most superactive Ruhiites who end up the most bitter (because they actually believe that stuff is going to imminently change society so it’s a hard fall when they experience how little anyone gives a stuff about it).

I sometimes think the Baha’is are like Daleks who are so incompetent that they can’t even shoot straight and therefore can’t EXTERMINATE anyone!

Did you ever see yourself leaving Christianity?

To directly answer the question, when I was a Southern Baptist, of course not! But I did later!

This question was asked in the exChristian subreddit.

Where one member said:


Definitely not. I was planning to go into ministry to convert as many people as possible to Christianity (wanted them to not go to hell you know). Majored in theology. Studied apologetics aggressively in high school and college.

I am honestly one of the most surprising people to have left the faith considering how deep into it I was.

______________

Then what made you quit?

___________


Christians acted horribly during the pandemic. It started not making sense that horrible people went to heaven while good people went to hell. Then I used my rational thinking skills that I learned in apologetics and my theology degree against the Bible to deconstruct. Figured out pretty quickly that it’s all fake.

__________________

It started not making sense that horrible people went to heaven while good people went to hell.

Maybe because Jesus never taught such insanity?

Then I used my rational thinking skills that I learned in apologetics and my theology degree against the Bible to deconstruct.

It should have been obvious that something was wrong as soon as you read the first few chapters of Matthew and compared them with the first few chapters of Luke. The two narratives CANNOT be harmonized, period. At least one of the accounts must have been made up. And if one, why not both? Quite simply, there is NO reason to assume that Jesus was born in Bethlehem.

You can read about that issue here: Teaching religion dishonestly

____________________

I was always taught that everything in the Bible can be explained. I see now how stupid that was. I was aware of all the errors in the Bible for years, but was extremely proficient in performing mental gymnastics around them.

_______________

When I was a Baptist, I used to laugh at the Mormons for believing in the ridiculous Book of Mormon. Then I stopped being a Baptist. Then I became a Baha’i and defended that religion for years. Then left the Baha’i Faith after realizing it was no better than Christianity!

When you have “faith”, anything goes. It does not matter what your faith is in.

_____________________

mental gymnastics

Which NO ONE should tolerate anymore. Reason: the followers of EVERY OTHER RELIGION also use mental gymnastics to defend their dogmas too. Truth can NEVER be found when you rely on dogmas of any kind.

__________________

Yeah I know. It was honestly ridiculous how damn blind I was, because I was an avid student of other religions much of the time I was Christian. I would always shake my head at the ridiculous attempts people used to defend their obviously flawed holy books, while somehow not recognizing that I was doing the same thing. Part of my deconstruction was that realization, and after that the whole thing unraveled pretty quickly.

 

Anti-Conservative Rants in Reddit

I sometimes think that as a whole, the users in Reddit are WAY smarter than most people. Here are two powerful comments I have just noticed that seem to illustrate that.

Fun… ok no, sad fact:

When slavery was abolished, I feel like a lot of people think it came with asterisks next to the amendment.

But it didn’t .

When slavery was abolished, it instantly made every black person equal to whites under the law.

Same rules applied to white and black people. Owning land. Owning a business. Eating anywhere they liked. This was the intended goal. It’s what those in congress voted and passed and celebrated. Equality.

But the southern states saw the loopholes, and within a few months, enacted the Jim Crow laws, separate but equal pretty damn fast.

The federal government made black people equal.

No caveats no restrictions in the amendment.

Then the states took that right away from them.

On another sad fun fact,

FDR was set to push a new bill of rights, an employee bill of rights.

His speech is something that hits so relevant today. His wants for all citizens and his reasoning as applied to the constitution was something you just don’t get from any politician today.

A snapshot of his speech;

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.”[8] People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens. For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world.

The more you learn of the past, the more you realize that progress could have happened sooner but evil prevailed in the name of “country and patriotism”.

Sad.

Good place to remind folks that conservatism is about hierarchy and a de facto underclass.

Conservatism (big C) has always had one goal and little c “general” conservatism is a myth. Conservatism has the related goals of maintaining a de facto aristocracy that inherits political power and pushing outsiders down to enforce an under class. In support of that is a morality based on a person’s inherent status as good or bad – not their actions. The thing that determines if someone is good or bad is whether they inhabit the aristocracy.

Another way, Conservatives – those who wish to maintain a class system – assign moral value to people and not actions. Those not in the aristocracy are immoral and therefore deserve punishment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4CI2vk3ugk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agzNANfNlTs its a ret con

https://pages.gseis.ucla.edu/faculty/agre/conservatism.html

Part of this is posted a lot: https://crookedtimber.org/2018/03/21/liberals-against-progressives/#comment-729288 I like the concept of Conservatism vs. anything else.


A Bush speech writer takes the assertion for granted: It’s all about the upper class vs. democracy. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/06/why-do-democracies-fail/530949/ “Democracy fails when the Elites are overly shorn of power.”

Read here: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/conservatism/ and here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism#History and see that all of the major thought leaders in Conservatism have always opposed one specific change (democracy at the expense of aristocratic power). At some point non-Conservative intellectuals and/or lying Conservatives tried to apply the arguments of conservatism to generalized “change.”

The philosophic definition of something should include criticism. The Stanford page (despite taking pains to justify small c conservatism) includes criticisms. Involving those we can conclude generalized conservatism (small c) is a myth at best and a Trojan Horse at worst.


Incase you don’t want to read the David Frum piece here is a highlight that democracy only exists at the leisure of the elite represented by Conservatism.

The most crucial variable predicting the success of a democratic transition is the self-confidence of the incumbent elites. If they feel able to compete under democratic conditions, they will accept democracy. If they do not, they will not. And the single thing that most accurately predicts elite self-confidence, as Ziblatt marshals powerful statistical and electoral evidence to argue, is the ability to build an effective, competitive conservative political party before the transition to democracy occurs.

Conservatism, manifest as a political party is simply the effort of the Elites to maintain their privileged status. One prior attempt at rebuttal blocked me when we got to: why is it that specifically Conservative parties align with the interests of the Elite?


There is a key difference between conservatives and others that is often overlooked. For liberals, actions are good, bad, moral, etc and people are judged based on their actions. For Conservatives, people are good, bad, moral, etc and the status of the person is what dictates how an action is viewed.

In the world view of the actual Conservative leadership – those with true wealth or political power – , the aristocracy is moral by definition and the working class is immoral by definition and deserving of punishment for that immorality. This is where the laws don’t apply trope comes from or all you’ll often see “rules for thee and not for me.” The aristocracy doesn’t need laws since they are inherently moral. Consider the divinely ordained king: he can do no wrong because he is king, because he is king at God’s behest. The anti-poor aristocratic elite still feel that way.

This is also why people can be wealthy and looked down on: if Bill Gates tries to help the poor or improve worker rights too much he is working against the aristocracy.


If we extend analysis to the voter base: conservative voters view other conservative voters as moral and good by the state of being labeled conservative because they adhere to status morality and social classes. It’s the ultimate virtue signaling. They signal to each other that they are inherently moral. It’s why voter base conservatives think “so what” whenever any of these assholes do nasty anti democratic things. It’s why Christians seem to ignore Christ.

While a non-conservative would see a fair or moral or immoral action and judge the person undertaking the action, a conservative sees a fair or good person and applies the fair status to the action. To the conservative, a conservative who did something illegal or something that would be bad on the part of someone else – must have been doing good. Simply because they can’t do bad.

To them Donald Trump is inherently a good person as a member of the aristocracy. The conservative isn’t lying or being a hypocrite or even being “unfair” because – and this is key – for conservatives past actions have no bearing on current actions and current actions have no bearing on future actions so long as the aristocracy is being protected. Lindsey Graham is “good” so he says to delay SCOTUS confirmations that is good. When he says to move forward: that is good.

To reiterate: All that matters to conservatives is the intrinsic moral state of the actor (and the intrinsic moral state that matters is being part of the aristocracy). Obama was intrinsically immoral and therefore any action on his part was “bad.” Going further – Trump, or the media rebranding we call Mitt Romney, or Moscow Mitch are all intrinsically moral and therefore they can’t do “bad” things. The one bad thing they can do is betray the class system.


The consequences of the central goal of conservatism and the corresponding actor state morality are the simple political goals to do nothing when problems arise and to dismantle labor & consumer protections. The non-aristocratic are immoral, inherently deserve punishment, and certainly don’t deserve help. They want the working class to get fucked by global warming. They want people to die from COVID19. Etc.

Montage of McConnell laughing at suffering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTqMGDocbVM&ab_channel=HuffPost

OH LOOK, months after I first wrote this it turns out to be validated by conservatives themselves: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/16/trump-appointee-demanded-herd-immunity-strategy-446408

Why do the conservative voters seem to vote against their own interest? Why does /selfawarewolves and /leopardsatemyface happen? They simply think they are higher on the social ladder than they really are and want to punish those below them for the immorality.

Absolutely everything Conservatives say and do makes sense when applying the above. This is powerful because you can now predict with good specificity what a conservative political actor will do.


We still need to address more familiar definitions of conservatism (small c) which are a weird mash-up including personal responsibility and incremental change. Neither of those makes sense applied to policy issues. The only opposed change that really matters is the destruction of the aristocracy in favor of democracy. For some reason the arguments were white washed into a general “opposition to change.”

  • This year a few women can vote, next year a few more, until in 100 years all women can vote?

  • This year a few kids can stop working in mines, next year a few more…

  • We should test the waters of COVID relief by sending a 1200 dollar check to 500 families. If that goes well we’ll do 1500 families next month.

  • But it’s all in when they want to separate migrant families to punish them. It’s all in when they want to invade the Middle East for literal generations.

The incremental change argument is asinine. It’s propaganda to avoid concessions to labor.

The personal responsibility argument falls apart with the whole “keep government out of my medicare thing.” Personal responsibility just means “I deserve free things, but people more poor than me don’t.”

Look: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yTwpBLzxe4U


And for good measure I found video and sources interesting on an overlapping topic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vymeTZkiKD0


Some links incase anyone doubts that the contemporary American voter base was purposefully machined and manipulated into its mangle of abortion, guns, war, and “fiscal responsibility.” What does fiscal responsibility even mean? Who describes themselves as fiscally irresponsible?

Here is Atwater talking behind the scenes. https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/exclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy/

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/religion/news/2013/03/27/58058/the-religious-right-wasnt-created-to-battle-abortion/

a little academic abstract to lend weight to conservatives at the time not caring about abortion. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-policy-history/article/abs/gops-abortion-strategy-why-prochoice-republicans-became-prolife-in-the-1970s/C7EC0E0C0F5FF1F4488AA47C787DEC01

They were casting about for something to rile a voter base up and abortion didn’t do it. https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2018/02/05/race-not-abortion-was-founding-issue-religious-right/A5rnmClvuAU7EaThaNLAnK/story.html

The role religion played entwined with institutionalized racism. https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisladd/2017/03/27/pastors-not-politicians-turned-dixie-republican/?sh=31e33816695f

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisladd/2017/03/27/pastors-not-politicians-turned-dixie-republican/?sh=12df77c6695f

https://www.salon.com/2019/07/01/the-long-southern-strategy-how-southern-white-women-drove-the-gop-to-donald-trum/

Likely the best: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133

Just a couple of brilliant statements I noticed. And they deserve a wider audience.

Silencing the truth is unacceptable, from ANYONE!

A reddit user named MacPark711 tried to bring up a painful topic in the Bahai subreddit. You can guess how far he got with it.

Sorry, this post has been removed by the moderators of r/bahai.
Moderators remove posts from feeds for a variety of reasons, including keeping communities safe, civil, and true to their purpose.

__________

 

Hi MacPark711,

I’m not going to approve this post. It would take a long time for contributors here to address all the specific points you raised. It’s sort of like if you were trying to learn about vaccines and you spent hours and hours on anti-vax videos and forums, and then wanted other people to address/dispel all the misinformation you learned. Here are the books you’ll need to read.

  1. The Kitáb-i-Íqán. This book covers the basic principles and lays the foundation for the teachings/revelation of Bahá’u’lláh. It states God continually provides mankind with revelation direct from God for our education and upliftment. After reading this you should decide if you think Bahá’u’lláh is a messenger of God or not. If you think a possibility exists, you can continue into history:

  2. The Dawn-Breakers for the context and early history of the Faith, centered on the life of the Bab but it does carry forward to some events in the life of Bahá’u’lláh.

After those two works you should have a good idea about the character and purpose of the life and mission of the Bab and an understanding of the place held by Bahá’u’lláh. After that if you still want answers to your specific questions, turn to the Will and Testament of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá and read it carefully. From it you will get an idea about what was acceptable behavior and what was not and you can judge the behavior of those close to Shoghi Effendi, who was following the Will and who was not?

In Summons of the Lord of Hosts you’ll find this passage: “This is the Day that shall not be followed by night, nor shall it be bounded by any praise, would that ye might understand!”

This is a significant promise written in 1868, because the only way to avoid the ‘night’ humanity has always seen following a religious dispensation is for the religious community Bahá’u’lláh has created to remain unified and under a control everyone accepts. You can almost bypass every concern listed simply by asking yourself, is it unified today? Is it under stable leadership?

But, going the long route, you can look next to histories centered on the life and teachings of Bahá’u’lláh, ‘Abdu’l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi. There are very lengthy books about each.

Like The Covenant of Baha’u’llah by Adib Taherzadeh, perhaps?

This books do not answer questions regarding the issues I have brought up. I am trying to do a service to the Bahai faith which is clearly falling part online. Just searching Bahai faith in google or you to leads to many negative pages and videos that need addressing You are contributing to sweeping issues under the rug. The debate over the will of Abdul needs talking about due to some evidence that it was forged. Just “reading” it carefully isnt the answer. I have read it as well as talks about it. I am well versed in it. The issues is the handwriting analyses that was done on it which claims it was alerted. I cant debunk this without being able to find people and information that discredits this. If you think just “reading” the Will will answer peoples questions who want to know if it was forged due to the many many pages and videos online saying it was forced, then you have your head in the clouds. I feel you are helping to hold back the faith. In an online world most new people will look up bahai, see these issues and then just go no further. You need to tackle the big issues as hard as they are. By keeping to put your head in the sand will help nothing. You cant just ask a casual perspective new member to “go read Kitáb-i-Íqán and the dawn breakers”. I myself have read all these books and many many more. Probably more Bahai books and scripture than most active bahais. By not approving this post you will be contributing to holding back growth of the faith as it will hinder my ability to answer tough questions and make good reports and videos on them. I have faced the same issues in bahai groups on facebbook. No one wants to answer the tough questions. Its a shame. I was ready to open some very good discourse on this reddit. Your vaccine analogy is ridiculous. If people were finding out anti vax issues and you were able to ask people info about correct info to dispel these falsehoods would not tackling the incorrect issues be smarter? You seem to think the issues would just go away. Trust me the anti bahai info online is getting huge. Its going to hinder the growth of the faith as these questions are not being answered. Almost 100% of perspective new members will go online for Bahai info. Many will leave. I did and then decided to come back and tackle these issues head on but as always just keep hitting brickwalls. Is this because in people hearts they know these issues are real?

I guess you have had your mind made. Just know I am going to give up my defense of the bahai faith. I am over it. I keep coming across people like you wishing to just “hope it away”. Its not going away unless someone tackles the anti bahai brigade. I hope in your own heart you realize the mistake you are making. I was going to do a full website and youtube giving great debunks to anti bahai issues that are all over the net. These videos and website could have saved potentially thousands of people from walking away of moving on. Its 2021. You cant just tell people to “read the book”. This thinking will kill the Bahai faith…

So MacPark711 went to the ExBahai subreddit instead:

Where I had this to say to him:

He answered:

Thanks. I am on the fence Bahai and trying to make sense of it all. But people like t0lk are simply gatekeeping on a huge public forum and doing a disservice to the faith. Its 2021. People cant hide behind just covering things up and pushing under the rug anymore. Everything is out there online. I can see you are obviously anti Bahai. And thats totally fine. You have that right. I am at least open to some dialogue and now I just wish some Bahais would have the guts to come and tackle the negative Bahai posts online or at least help me in what I wish to do. I dont have enough info or knowledge to do this. Thats why I was hoping to get some Bahais onboard to help me but as you can see everyone just hides and blocks everything. Even worse they couldn’t even reply to my follow up explaining their reasons. t0lk just hides.

“Independent investigation of truth” means “just read and agree to what our books say”. by the sounds of it.

This is all really irritating me.

___________________

The Baha’is will NEVER allow you to ask such questions, not in any Baha’i Community, not in any Baha’i meeting, not at the Baha’i World Centre. You will be asked to leave. Your Membership in the Faith will be removed.

Was S.E. a closet homosexual? Probably so. The witnesses are many. Are they ALL lying? If you believe current Baha’i apologists, yes. I don’t think they were all lying.

Was S.E. lazy and went on 4 month long trips to Switzerland (without his wife) every year? He went on such trips, yearly. Without his wife. Was he lazy? He spent most days writing letters and translating. Why did he go to Switzerland for four months a year? Some say to get away from his wife. Others say to meet his lover, George Townsend. Others say, to get away from the hot Palestine Summers. Maybe the answer is “All of the above”. No way to be SURE unless one finds a letter written by Townsend or Effendi, that is a love letter. No such letter has been found.

Was S.E. a tyrant who excommunicated his relatives over the smallest of things? Answer: THEY thought so. He demanded absolute control over every decision of their lives, including whom they could marry and not marry, where they could go on trips, etc. If they “defied” him, he excommunicated them: including their children.

Did the wife of ‘Abdu’l-Baha forge part of the Will and Testament, making S.E. Guardian? Answer: the evidence is that part of the Will and Testament was NOT written by ‘Abdu’l-Baha. That much is known. Some think ‘Abdu’l-Baha dictated it to his wife or some scribe. Others think it was forged after AB died. Nobody saw the Will and Testament BEFORE AB died except AB and his wife. All we know for SURE is that the section where AB appoints SE as Guardian, is NOT in the handwriting of AB, but the rest of the W&T is in the handwriting of AB.

How can these issues be resolved? Answer: they won’t be. Either way, they won’t be. You have to decide “if” you want to be a Baha’i, and promote the Baha’i Faith, or not. These questions will always be unresolved. You have to choose.

Much to my annoyance, MacPark711 chose……to run away from the discussion by deleting his own post. But the neat thing about reddit is that you can still look up and restore some deleted material. Also, I found that Naser Emtesali had already copied the statement MacPark711 deleted here.

So…….I proceeded to put it ALL back on r/exbahai !

It worked!

Thank you for the restoration. Interesting read as I hit my 1-year anniversary of formal resignation.

(Have not regretted the decision one iota; only sorry I hadn’t done it a few decades earlier.)

May I highlight the staunch baha’i’s, named t0lk, typical and expected reply (in my own words): “read these (excruciatingly) lengthy books–hopefully your brain will be numbed to a level that will keep your critical thinking muscles QUIET.”

_______________

I am actually more upset at MacPark711 for deleting the original post here than at t0lk. I am USED to t0lk being a lying, backstabbing asshole.

MacPark711 needs to wake the hell up! I can state for the record that even if I was still a Baha’i in 2018 (the year I first joined reddit), by now I would have resigned from the Faith because of all the crap I have clearly seen from the reddit Baha’is. They are mostly hypocrites because their Faith makes them so by DESIGN. You can’t save it……..you just have to…….LET IT GO!!!!!

 

Why do religions produce so many hypocrites?

I used to think that hypocrisy in religious communities was exceptional and could be easily dealt with once discovered. Now I’m not so sure.

Look at this discussion:

I need some advice. My family has strong roots to the bahai religion . Both my mom and dad left Iran at a young age during the iranian revolution to practice their religion in America . My dad is part of the spiritual assembly. My parents hosts allot of feasts at our house and are well known in the community. As a kid I was made to go to Sunday school allot and made to attend some of those bahai youth camps . At the age of 15 I had to sign a bahai card in front of everyone at the feast because If I didn’t my parents would be embarrassed and be sad so I signed it . After that day I signed my card I told my dad I really don’t believe in this faith. I could never wrap my head around why Baháʼu’lláh had three wives and women not being able to serve in the universal house of justice. One of the main reasons that turned me off about the faith was the constant discussion of how to get more new followers . Every feast I attended we literally talked about how to get new members and discussing different ways to teach the faith to non believers. In Sunday’s school and in youth camps , this was always the topic for the most part . In spite of all of this I made an agreement with my parents not to officially make myself not a bahai but I let them know I don’t believe in any of this this . The reason I did this is because my parents would really be sad and it would be an embarrassing situation for my dad because he is part of the spiritually assembly . If I wanted to withdraw from the Bahai faith it would be brought up in one of his spiritual assembly meetings. Everyone in the spiritual assembly is my dads close friends and they always go over to each others houses . I’ve been trying to talk to my parents about leaving the faith and I always bring up really good points of why to leave it but they always are in denial and never give me answers to my questions . One day I asked my dad what makes you so sure about this faith and he said my great grandmother met Baháʼu’lláh. They get really emotional after I question the faith in front of them,sometimes angry at me or sometimes sad . They’re in there late 50s right now . My question is do you think it’s too late for them to leave the faith . Do you think they’re too far in it ? I really feel like they’re brain washed . They were taught about the faith at a very young age . Everything around them and all there friends were Bahai. Bahai everything . Do I continue question their faith in front of them or just let them be? Sorry for the bad grammar.

 

I offered some advice, but it is more interesting what others said there.

Wow, okay there is a lot to un-box here. Regarding your parents, yes from what you’ve shared it does seem they’re fully entrenched in their belief system. For you however, you need to ask yourself some questions.

  1. Is it safe to leave?

I don’t know what the finer details your situation are, but I have seen Persian Baha’i parents shun and disown their teenage sons and daughters over this issue. It’s truly heartbreaking. You would have to estimate how they would react to you rejecting their worldview openly, and what the fallout from that might look like. I understand reputation is of importance in Persian culture, and you’re worried what this might do to your father’s reputation. You will need to carefully consider that too when trying to predict how he will react.

2. Is it healthy for you to stay?

On the other hand, you need to consider the toll that living a life that is inauthentic will have on your mental health. I did that for years before I left and I still get emotional when I think of the regrets I have. Mainly regretting going through the motions to maintain an appearance of engagement in something I was starting to have profound disagreements with.

I really hope you’re able to make the right decision for yourself, whatever that may be. While many of us on this sub have differering affiliations now, we all went through difficulties when we started to move away from the faith. Best of luck to you!

Then a Baha’i barged in. A bit of background: This particular Baha’i was so much a contrarian that he was actually banned from the Bahai subreddit, so he went to the exBahai subreddit instead, where oddly enough, the mods there almost never took action against him. The reason for that will become clear soon.

I will defend the Faith a bit:

I could never wrap my head around why Baháʼu’lláh had three wives and women not being able to serve in the universal house of justice.

About the three wives, my view is that a prophet is above his laws. The religious book is there to help guide people to doing good. But if you can communicate directly with God, you do not need to observe what is in the book to do what is good.

As for women on the UHJ, my view is that women are just unfit to be in the highest position of authority. It is in women’s nature to follow whatever is the dominant trend, and this is not good for leading a religion. All moral laws would be compromised if they conflict with trends. For example, if women were on the UHJ, there is no question they would have already declared gay marriage to be permissible in the Bahai Faith.

One of the main reasons that turned me off about the faith was the constant discussion of how to get more new followers . Every feast I attended we literally talked about how to get new members and discussing different ways to teach the faith to non believers.

I think you are perfectly justified in being turned off by these people. But it is not Bahaullah’s writings that tell them to do this, but an insane proselytism culture that now dominates the Bahai community, which views converting others as being the main if not only goal of the Bahai Faith. If you read Bahaullah’s writings, you will find that this culture in no way stems from him. There are some passages where Bahaullah encourages teaching, but there are also passages where he discourages it in some cases. For example, Bahaullah says that you should teach yourself before teaching others. He also says that it is not acceptable for people who are not firm believers to teach. This is the exact opposite of what the Baha’i community does – for example, the entire goal of Ruhi is to trick non-believers into acting as missionaries for the Bahai Faith.

So we went after him!

Pretty sure you are alone in your views on this subreddit

“The prophet is above his laws?” “Women are unfit to be in a high position of authority,” but women and men are also equal? The mental gymnastics you have to do in order to believe what you said is astounding.

I do not think Jesus Christ or Moses would ever believe they were above the Ten Commandments or the Gospel.

You’re telling this to a teen who is about to leave this religion as soon as they can. You’re definitely not encouraging this person to stay in your faith.

Then he said:

I do not think Jesus Christ or Moses would ever believe they were above the Ten Commandments or the Gospel.

One of the commandments is “Thou shalt not kill” and Moses killed people on multiple occasions. Prophets do not follow their own rules for the same reason that a dog owner might make a rule for his dog that he does not follow himself.

Higher beings require less rules. The highest being, God, does not need to follow any rules.

Then I decided to nail him to the wall!

“Rules for thee, not for me” is the very definition of hypocrisy, which Jesus actually condemned.

And since you opened the door for this…..

https://dalehusband.com/2019/05/12/biblical-genocide-and-pedophilia/

https://dalehusband.com/2018/02/24/god-was-a-hypocrite/

When God (and his Messengers) do not follow their own rules, they open the door for rules to not matter at all. For anyone.

And that is why I, as a highly ethical ATHEIST and Unitarian Universalist, don’t need your kind of god-centered religion at all. I DO have strict rules and principles and I seek to obey them in all ways.

https://dalehusband.com/about-the-author/an-honorable-skeptic/

https://www.uua.org/beliefs/what-we-believe/principles

Racists should be consistent in their bigotry

I always assumed that most racists rejected and looked down on ALL members of minorities, without exception. But that appears to not be the case sometimes.

Take a look at this discussion:

gothlaw

“expat Shaun Cromber voted Leave but said he did not believe Brexit would end his Spanish lifestyle. He said: “Yes I voted out, but I didn’t realise it would come to this.”

So he voted for the UK to leave the EU, but then did not immediately leave the EU to return to the UK? Seriously???

InPatRileyWeTrust

This is literally the classic leave voter. Yeah we voted leave but didn’t think anything negative would actually happen.

_________________

‘Get those dirty Italian and Spanish foreigners out of the UK….but oh let me stay in their country so I can enjoy their lifestyle’.

Then the discussion went beyond the issue of Brexit.

I spent most of the past decade working (legally) in China. You wouldn’t believe the number of American “expats” I met there “teaching” English on tourist & business visas. For most I didn’t care about their status…except the ones who ranted on about “illegals” back home. I took great pleasure in discussing & highlighting their illegal status. Most didn’t get the irony of their situation due to exceptionalism.

Note: I was an economic migrant. I had a choice of being unemployed/redundant back home or move to China.

__________________________

A Trump supporter’s husband was deported in 2017 and she says that Trump was only supposed to deport “bad” people and not illegal immigrants like her husband. She Trump made a mistake, but still has her support.

____________

and then they interviewed other Karens from the same town. Apparnetly the genetleman deported had lived in the town for 20 + years, raised a family there, OWNED THE ONLY MEXICAN RESTAURANT IN TOWN, was loved by all the people there……

Interview after interview these white folks said they LOVED TRUMP and still supported his push to get rid of illegals, but they wanted him to make an exception for their illegal.

Just like every other thing and republicans…..they are filled with hate and anger until their policies affect themselves…..then they have an epiphany, say something akin to “I didn’t think the leopards would eat my face” and then keep on hating the next day.* (* explained at bottom)

Hate is their fuel. Just like old people’s medicine is for the robots that are going to take over and kill us all.

*: I just made a comment about 30 minutes ago about Republicans who protest outside abortion clinics. I’ve read countless interviews with abortion clinic nurses and providers who repeatedly state that many of the same women that protest wind up in their clinic receiving their services, but ALWAYS say something along these lines, “Well, you see, my situation is special. I wasn’t a whore like all the other girls that come here.”

And then after being treated with kindness and compassion, the abortion protestor is seen outside the very clinic they received an abortion at less than a week afterwards, yelling hateful things to the people that treated them with kindness. Just another example of someone who can’t fathom life outside of their own little minds until they are thrust into the same situation. Then, instead of it changing their viewpoint and becoming a better person, they think they’re the exception and go on right back to hating.

_______________

I listened to an NPR interview a couple months ago (up to 6 months ago I’d say, so I may get some details wrong) where the host did a segment on one gentleman. He was from Mexico, but his family got him US citizenship when he was a child and moved him up here. I think they said he joined the Navy for a time before getting out and joining Border Patrol. He was a distinguished border patrol agent, got several awards and a fair amount of recognition over his 10+ year career.
He talked about how he didn’t always agree with who he was tasked with deporting, but it was the law and how things worked and he left it at that. I was honestly kind of pissed with how he could view someone in such similar circumstances as himself, but because their family didn’t do their due diligence, they deserved to have everything taken from them in an instant. Him and his wife both voted for Trump, despite him being an immigrant.
And then they talked about how he was called into his supervisors office one day where he was met with a couple other federal agents. He was informed that his US birth certificate was actually a forgery and completely fake, and he had been illegally living and working in the US for a few decades. He was ordered to turn in his badge, his gun, and then told that he would need to fight it in the courts. Y’know, just like all the people he had arrested over the years. He had no idea, his parents/grandparents had lied to him since he was a boy.
Him and his wife were very upset, obviously, and got legal help. During the interview he had mentioned that they had been fighting in the courts for a couple years already, but they had just submitted their final appeal, likely in vain. They couldn’t believe that he, a distinguished federal employee and veteran, couldn’t be granted any sort of leniency to try and prevent him from being deported, or that Trump had enacted such tough immigration laws and had basically abandoned them when they felt they needed him.
The whole interview, like I said, pissed me off because I honestly felt the guy was getting what he deserved. He broke the rules, just like he said all those people he had apprehended over the years, and they needed to suffer the consequences. But once the shoe was on his foot, and he was the one being deported, all of a sudden it’s “this isn’t fair, this isn’t right, this isn’t just,” blah blah blah.
The most astounding part? I’m pretty sure they both said they (the guy and his wife) had or were going to vote for Trump again in 2020, and… Just, I don’t get people. The Republican Party and those who follow it are the epitome of “rules for thee, not for me,” and this guy was acting like he was unjustly being targeted when he was literally guilty of everything they said he had done.

________________

Teripid

And Trump himself is responsible for Melania’s parents.

__________________

I watched an episode of that show Ghosted on MTV. There was a white girl who had been ghosted by her black friend. She couldn’t figure out why. It turns out she was a Trump supporter and would post all kinds of hateful stuff on FB. When they found her former friend the ghoster was like you really don’t understand why I wouldn’t want to be friends with you?

__________________

That’s the very definition of hypocrisy.

There was the case of a German Army officer who had to deal with a Swedish diplomat (Sweden was neutral in World War II) who eventually revealed he was Jewish. The German officer said, “You are a good Jew. I wouldn’t consider you my enemy.”

That German was still a Hitler supporter to the end, of course.

______________

there was this saying that every German had their “good Jew”. You know, that one Jew who wasn’t like the others, all the others were terrible, but that one Jew they knew, he wasn’t like that.

It’s always easier to hate a big abstract group of people than the people you actually know.

_______________

There’s a very important corollary this that I want to note; despite what they claim, they don’t actually believe that abortion is wrong. They just believe that the wrong kind of people are getting abortions.

This is prevalent in Conservative attitudes to literally everything. It’s all about hierarchies, and making sure that the right kind of people are at the top of those hierarchies. Everything is acceptable, when the right people are doing it.

This reminds me of this earlier blog entry:

The Dumbest Kind of Trump Supporter

And the cases of Thomas Jefferson and Strom Thurmond come to mind as well. Both had relationships and even children with black women……and both were racists and championed racist policies. BOTH WERE HYPOCRITES!

And that’s why I have always said:

I believe in consistent standards of right and wrong and so I see no point in ever excusing something that is wrong because the wrongdoer is otherwise a friendly or nice guy. That’s how corruption sets in.

And corruption is the only thing Conservatives in ANY society seem to do. People enable that nonsense because it seems they only want to be good to a certain point and when that point is reached and ethical consistency starts to make their lives a bit less convenient for them (but beneficial for people that are different from them), they embrace corruption instead. And so they might as well not be good at all.

Mormon leaders need to STFU about tithing!

A common complaint in the ExMormon subreddit is over the obsession the Mormon leaders have with tithing, which is paying 1/10th of your earnings to the church. Many Christian churches encourage this and some also accept “offerings” (any payment that is not a part of tithing).

I can understand a church suggesting tithing as a means of its support, but making it MANDATORY seems absurd. And yet…….

I couldn’t believe the Mormon church would do such a thing. And then I saw the proof:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2012/12/sacred-transformations?lang=eng

The Vigils’ bishop, César Orellana, also saw changes in their lives. Soon after their baptism, Amado approached Bishop Orellana and said, “We want to pay tithing, but we don’t know how.”

Bishop Orellana explained that tithing was 10 percent of their increase. Amado was somewhat concerned. At the time, Evelyn had a job, but he did not. “We always come up short,” Amado explained to his bishop, “but we want to pay tithing.”

Bishop Orellana responded, “Brother, the Lord has made many promises.” Together they read scriptures about the blessings that come from faithfully paying tithing, including the Lord’s words through the prophet Malachi: “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, … and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it” (Malachi 3:10).

After reading these scriptures together, Bishop Orellana looked at the new convert and said, “If paying tithing means that you can’t pay for water or electricity, pay tithing. If paying tithing means that you can’t pay your rent, pay tithing. Even if paying tithing means that you don’t have enough money to feed your family, pay tithing. The Lord will not abandon you.”

The next Sunday, Amado approached Bishop Orellana again. This time he didn’t ask any questions. He simply handed his bishop an envelope and said, “Bishop, here is our tithing.”

If you are actually trying to get people to starve themselves or go without any basic necessities to give you anything, YOU ARE A DAMNED PARASITE!!!!

People like Bishop Orellana are con artists, pure and simple.

A critical analysis of a Muslim to Baha’i testimony

Today, I can celebrate, as Joe Biden finally takes his rightful place as the new President of the United States. I really hope Donald Trump fades away into the void like the degenerate scumbag he always was.

Meanwhile, I am still dealing with religious issues in reddit. Take a look at this:

https://www.removeddit.com/r/bahai/comments/l189z7/from_shia_exmuslim_to_bahai/

they_marked_me

I grew up in a strict Iraqi Shia family. I always had a place for God in my heart but I could never reconcile with the teachings of the Quran and the effects Islam had on the Muslim communities around me, shia, sunni, moderate and others. I saw sexism, homophobia, gossip, emotional isolation and of course violent enforcement of religious teachings. When I was finally old enough to legally leave my family home I did. I left religion, my hijab and the community behind. I needed to finally breathe.

10 years passed and I noticed that God’s place in my heart was getting smaller and smaller. There was even a point where I doubted my belief. Why was there so much hatred in his communities? Why was so much pain caused by his believers? Their worship and and words were so different that they might as well be descended from different Gods. I resented that I was told to believe in a God that promised nothing but horror, torture and hell fire. There was no compassion for Gods creatures, no pleasure in bowing down for him, no inspiration in their teachings and no guidance for my modern life. Deep down I knew of God and his true nature. His compassion, his beauty, his love for us. I couldn’t follow any religion or book that besmirched his name like that.

I wasn’t approached by any Bahai. I never saw any of their online work. I just searched for an answer. I refused to believe that God would let us rot in this horribly defect world we created. I believed that he must have thought of us and sent us guidance. I just needed to find it. It didn’t take long. When I learned about the Bab and his story it all clicked into place. The Shia teachings that I learned about in madrassa allowed me to recognize the Bab’s truth.

I’m only in the learning stages and I have no Bahai communities near me. But I call myself a Bahai because now I know that the God I have in my heart has never abandoned us.

Let’s do an examination of this testimony.

I always had a place for God in my heart but I could never reconcile with the teachings of the Quran and the effects Islam had on the Muslim communities around me, shia, sunni, moderate and others.

Millions of moderate and progressive Muslims can do just that. Indeed, there are subreddits of such Muslims, like this one:

https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/

I saw sexism, homophobia, gossip, emotional isolation and of course violent enforcement of religious teachings.

There is sexism and homophobia in the Baha’i Faith, even while the Faith’s leaders lie about believing in equality of men and women and claim they reject prejudice against gays

Why was there so much hatred in his communities? Why was so much pain caused by his believers? Their worship and and words were so different that they might as well be descended from different Gods. I resented that I was told to believe in a God that promised nothing but horror, torture and hell fire. There was no compassion for Gods creatures, no pleasure in bowing down for him, no inspiration in their teachings and no guidance for my modern life.

Those are exactly the sort of issues that lead many people to become atheists. And yet…..

Deep down I knew of God and his true nature. His compassion, his beauty, his love for us. I couldn’t follow any religion or book that besmirched his name like that.

Then why not embrace a form of Universalism?

I wasn’t approached by any Bahai. I never saw any of their online work. I just searched for an answer.

If you haven’t dealt directly with Baha’is, then you know nothing about how their religion works in terms of community. You just saw an abstraction. Religion is only useful in terms of its people.

I refused to believe that God would let us rot in this horribly defect world we created.

Ironically, atheism, so reviled by followers of Abrahamic religions, actually lets God off the hook; you can’t blame God for anything if he doesn’t exist.

I believed that he must have thought of us and sent us guidance. I just needed to find it.

I had the same assumptions in the mid 1990s, so I too became a Baha’i.

When I learned about the Bab and his story it all clicked into place. The Shia teachings that I learned about in madrassa allowed me to recognize the Bab’s truth.

Bullshit! The Bab claimed to be the Mahdi, a Messianic figure in Shiite Islam much like Jesus was supposed to be in Christianity. The Bab was expected to overthrow the evil rulers of the world and bring about a new age, but his being killed in 1850 by a firing squad should have discredited him and his movement forever. That didn’t happen because only a few years later, Baha’u’llah revived the Babi community and then claimed that he was “He Who God Will Make Manifest” that the Bab foretold. Most of the Babis, desperate to retain their faith, accepted Baha’u’llah and became Baha’is. To me, this would be an example of the sunk cost fallacy; the Babis and later Baha’is had suffered so much for their beliefs that they couldn’t bring themselves to admit they had been duped and their leadership had failed. This irrational view has kept the Baha’i Faith going to this day!

It is interesting that she is more interested in the Bab than Baha’u’llah. Could she become a Bayani/Azali if she discovers propaganda discrediting Baha’u’llah? But that movement is even less successful than the Baha’i one!

It is possible that the real reason she rejected Islam is that it does not fit her Spiritual Orientation. Could the Baha’i Faith be better for her? Then she should read this:

https://dalehusband.com/2018/05/04/if-your-spiritual-orientation-is-bahai/

And for clarity, she should also see this:

https://dalehusband.com/2018/04/24/if-your-spiritual-orientation-is-muslim/

She should also see THIS about a girl raised Muslim:

https://dalehusband.com/2019/06/16/a-conversion-to-unitarian-universalism/

There are SO MANY options they_marked_me can look up and consider before she goes off the deep end and wastes her time and life serving the cult of the So-Called Baha’i Faith (SCBF)!

 

 

Advice for people leaving or thinking of leaving their religion.

In reddit, there are many subreddits that are made as support groups for people doubting or denying the religion they were raised in and wanting to leave it. This blog entry is for those people.

Here is a list of those ex(religious) subreddits.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Exittors/     (A general subreddit for various people leaving any religious group allowing them to  compare notes and see how much alike they are.)

https://www.reddit.com/r/exchristian/

https://www.reddit.com/r/excatholic/

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/     (A subreddit for former Jehovah’s Witnesses, not to be confused with ex-Jews)

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjew/  (THIS is the subreddit for people who have rejected the Jewish religion, even if they are considered of Jewish ethnicity.)

https://www.reddit.com/r/exAdventist/    (For those who reject Seventh Day Adventist teachings)

https://www.reddit.com/r/exscientology/

https://www.reddit.com/r/EXHINDU/

https://www.reddit.com/r/excoc/      (For those rejecting the “Church of Christ”)

https://www.reddit.com/r/thegreatproject/     (Another subreddit for people wanting to tell stories about leaving their religion.)

And last but certainly not least (at least to me):  

https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/

Warning: Do NOT go to a religious group of any kind and openly state you want to quit their religion. All that will do is start a fight you don’t need to be involved in. Examples:  

Once you decide what you really are, you can join a subreddit that defines you in a positive rather than a negative way. Such as:

https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/

https://www.reddit.com/r/agnostic/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Humanist/

https://www.reddit.com/r/skeptic/

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnitarianUniversalist/

Finally, here is a song for all those ex(religious) people in the world to celebrate their freedom from whatever cult or dogmatic bullshit they were once in:

 

 

Rape and incest in the Middle East, and elsewhere

Read this horror story:

Children with genetic diseases due to inbreeding in Syria’s Idlib

Children with genetic diseases due to inbreeding in Syria’s Idlib

IDLIB, Syria (North Press) – Despite all medical warnings and risks of cousin marriage, families in northwestern Syria continue forcing their daughters to cousin marriage according to the prevailing customs that prohibit marriage to strangers.   

Cousin marriage mainly affects the new-born children; they may have congenital anomalies, disabilities and chronic genetic diseases, according to medical studies.

Samar Ali, 18, a resident from the city of Saraqeb in the eastern countryside of Idlib, said that she was forced to an arranged marriage to her cousin two years ago, “I refused him because I felt as if he was my brother, but my father forced me to marry him.”        

“A year following the marriage, I gave birth to a child with thalassemia (chronic genetic anemia) where it will bear the consequences of that marriage throughout its life.”

Samar is forced to take her child to the Thalassemia Center every 15 days for blood transfusion; unfortunately this process will continue for the rest of the child’s life.

Children with thalassemia spend several hours in blood transfusion operation. However, some transfer blood every 15 days while others do it every month.

Some people from Idlib believe that inbreeding increased during years of war under the pretext of protecting the girl from being kidnapped or raped.

Additionally, relatives were forced to displace or take refuge to some places whether inside or outside the country, in addition to the fact that such kind of marriage has lower cost than marrying a girl from outside the family.  

Aysha Mahmoud, a resident from Kafr Losin in the northern countryside of Idlib who married her cousin, decided to abstain from childbearing after she gave birth to a child with paralysis of his lower limbs, which turned into muscle atrophy until he was no longer able to move and walk over the time.

She insisted on her decision even after her husband married another woman.

“Many cousin couples are not subjected to the necessary medical examinations before marriage because they do not realize the risks of such marriages,” Abdulqader Muhammad, a doctor in Idlib, said.

The most familiar diseases among children are mental retardation, kidney cyst, heart disease, liver disease, diabetes, blood diseases, and the most dangerous of which is thalassemia, which has no cure, according to the doctor.

Some families who marry their daughters to their relatives believe that these marriages strengthen families’ ties and protect the customs and norms that are more powerful than the scientific facts for them.  

Marwa Hallaq (pseudonym), a 20-year-old woman from Idlib,  said that the woman is forced to tolerate and not call for her rights when marrying her cousin, so that to avoid disputes between the two families.”

“Despite all continued difficulties, disputes, and lack of understanding between us, I have to endure that in order to avoid disputes between my family and my family-in-laws,” Hallaq added. 

Continue reading

Another victory over the Baha’i Faith and one of its bigoted hypocrites

Two days ago, a seeker (a Baha’i term for a person investigating the Baha’i Faith) came to the Baha’i subreddit to ask questions about it.

And among those who tried to offer answers and advice was:

One of the things I would encourage is really taking the time to understand who Baha’u’llah is and what He taught. We all come with different backgrounds and experiences, but the concept in the Baha’i Faith of the Messenger of God as the representative of God and reflection of the Holy Spirit is at the core of our theology.

-It is difficult to understand and conceive of God. On one level, God and the spirit emanating from God is in all things; but, at another level, God is independent, unknowable, and one in the Baha’i Faith.

Meanwhile, I was in a state of rage, after learning this same DavidBinOwen had stalked and attacked me in another subreddit where I had made a statement against the Baha’i Faith. And I was damn tired of being one of his favorite prey items! So I proceeded to rant about it in the exBaha’i subreddit.

And the seeker SAW that! So he contacted me.

imfinnacry

Hey, Sorry to bother you but I would like to be very open with you. I’m a person in search of my religious beliefs. One that best reflects my spiritual beliefs and welcomes my choice of practice. I’ve found Unitarian Universalist, Baha’i Faith, and Advaita Vedanta Hinduism as my primary choices. I also have Islam and returning back to hinduism in the back of my head as far off options for me.

I come to you because I recently joined the Baha’i subreddit and asked them a couple of questions regarding mysticism, divination, and my Pantheist views.

Before converting I did more research that led me to this subreddit and your most recent post about a member of the baha’i subreddit DavidBinOwen. Your post shocked me because it comes off the complete opposite to what I have come to know learning about the Baha’i believers.

I wish to know what do you know about the Baha’i faith from your experience. Why did you decide Baha’i wasn’t for you and what do you not like about it. I want to use what you may know as a warning or caution for what I might be getting myself into.

 

I decided that to be diplomatic was the best option, so…..

To be fair, I should note that DavidBinOwen is not really a typical Baha’i. Most Baha’is I used to know were genuinely loving and honorable people…..at least they seemed to be. Here is one of my most powerful statements against the Baha’i Faith. If you want anything more, contact me later.

The next day:

imfinnacry

I do have a question for you

I read what you’ve sent me and I’ve also read the blogs you’ve referenced in this particular post you’ve made as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/comments/idqjpp/a_conversation_about_religion/

________________

Seeker_Alpha1701

What is your question?

____________________

imfinnacry

I’m honestly quite disheartened. It felt like I’ve finally found a faith that was pretty much as close to what I’ve wanted out of a religious institution with it’s progressive and liberal values, inclusion of other religious faiths and so on.

As a pantheist first, a fan of rational minded educators, Baruch Spinoza, Einstein, and simply logic I can’t bring myself to subscribing to the Baha’i Faith like I once wanted to after reading your posts that pointed out so many fallacies and inconsistencies in the faith.

My question to you is, I did come across one blog while scouring your website. It was the blog about you and your friend presenting the idea of a Unitarian Baha’i Faith. Do you think that’s possible to achieve? Or would you suggest simply looking into UU instead?

I am guessing he saw this:

https://dalehusband.com/2010/04/05/why-we-need-a-unitarian-bahai-faith/

Seeker_Alpha1701

To make a long story short, Eric Stetson eventually dropped out of the Unitarian Baha’i movement, and all that’s left of it is a few websites and a Facebook group. Based on your various comments, you might be best joining a UU church, where you may always be free to explore different theologies and beliefs while still being part of a community that won’t judge you for questioning things most other religions take for granted.

To help you sort things out, please read all these essays: https://dalehusband.com/spiritual-orientation-series/

I won’t tell you what to believe, but I want to give you the tools to find out what is truly best for you. That sets me, and most UUs, apart from most Baha’is, Christians, and other dogmatic religions that seek converts.

____________

imfinnacry

Thank you, I appreciate it Dale.

For DavidBinOwen, this is a clear case of:

https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/hoisted+by+their+own+petard

hoist by/with (one’s) own petard

To be injured, ruined, or defeated by one’s own action, device, or plot that was intended to harm another; to have fallen victim to one’s own trap or schemes.

Being Better Educated and Changing my Opinion

One of my basic principles of being an Honorable Skeptic is what I call the malleability of my opinions, as expressed this way:

Because I am honorable, I sometimes willingly concede points made by my opponents in debates with them. This should never be seen as a sign of weakness. When I know I am right about something, I will fight to the bitter end to support my case and discredit my opponent because in some cases I do see my battles as a struggle between light and darkness, good and evil, or ignorance and knowledge. But I am also willing at times to listen to my opponent and consider his point of view, especially if that person is known by me to be honorable. If we do not listen to others, how can we ever grow in knowledge?

In the past, I opposed the legal concept of statutory rape, thinking it an outdated and irrational one, much like laws in the past banning homosexual relations or interracial unions. But recent events have made me reconsider my position and try to understand why otherwise enlightened people would be so insistent that teens should never be allowed to have romantic and sexual relations with older partners, even of their own choosing.

Continue reading

A debate in the UU subreddit over the 2017 hiring controversy.

For some background, read these:

What integrity in leadership looks like

Stop whining about “censorship”!

A Critical Mistake in the UU World

Reopening Old Wounds Among Unitarian Universalists

Now, the issues dealt with in those blog entries are being rehashed yet again in a UU subreddit.

Continue reading

Wahid Azal strikes again!

Today (December 18, 2019) I got this message on reddit:

Your account has been permanently suspended for posting personal information.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/comments/e1okuf/i_was_suspended_from_reddit_last_week_under_false/

This is an automated message; responses will not be received by Reddit admins.

And just like last time, it was not made clear what personal information was being referred to. How can I know not to break rules if it is never explained the exact nature of my violation? Even in the previous case, I had to guess what my wrongdoing was; I still do not really know because no one in reddit ever actually told me. This is why reddit as a web community has very little credibility in my eyes.

It is obvious to me that Wahid Azal won’t give up until I am totally gone from reddit forever and thus it is easier for him and his cultists to disrupt the exBaha’i community there.

A few days before my second suspension, there was this incident between me and another idiot follower of Azal.

Good observations. Persian Bahais have been put on a pedestal in many communities but that’s not what the Bahai teachings are about. In general, I believe pride is a stumbling block for most people, but especially for Bahais as their scriptures make them feel special… a way to keep people attached to the religion for fear of losing that special status.

Yes, and THAT was why Wahid Azal claimed later I was a “racist”. Not because I have used racial slurs or because I have advocated actual discrimination against any racial minorities. Quite the opposite.

komorikomori

He called you a racist because you exude racism and white privilege despite all your pretensions to the contrary, and upon being confronted with this, you resorted to accusations of “reverse racism,” which is a white nationalist dog-whistle. Believe it or not, but you don’t have to be running around shouting the N-word and making flagrantly racist statements to be expressing sentiments of white privilege.

Needless to say, that claim is absolute bullshit! So I promptly ripped it apart.

ALL white people in white majority countries have white privledge, that’s true, but I have NEVER expressed the kind of bigoted hatred towards any minorities that Wahid Azal started spitting at me once it was clear I would never be one of his blind followers. Being white, even in a southern state like Texas, does NOT make someone racist. Azal simply lied about that, period. He is a fraud and you are a fool to believe anything he says.

Imagine a prominent Muslim theologian who happens to live in a majority pagan country, who was even born in that country and belongs to that country’s dominant ethnic group, as well as being raised pagan and converting to Islam as an adult, being called a polytheist and thus guilty of shirk by an insanely jealous rival, which is something literally impossible for an actual Muslim to be. You can only justify such an outrageous claim if you produce pics of the “Muslim” bowing down to an idol of a god other than Allah. Otherwise, it is just an insulting lie, stemming from racism. That was the basis for my calling Wahid Azal a racist towards me. He attacked me for my Southern Baptist background (which is indeed bigoted), not anything I’ve done since leaving that corrupt form of Christianity.

you resorted to accusations of “reverse racism,” which is a white nationalist dog-whistle.

It can be such……but not actually in my case. It is indeed possible for a black man in an African country like Zimbabwe to express racism towards whites. To say this is fair is to deny that the playing field between races should ever be leveled, instead still favoring one race dominating another. You either believe in racial equality or you don’t. Wahid Azal’s recent attacks on me prove he is an anti-white extremist, not a credible activist for racial harmony and peacemaking like me.

Even the Southern Poverty Law Center, the most dedicated anti-racist organization in America, lists black separatist groups as “hate groups” along with the Ku Klux Klan, American Nazis, and others that favor whites.

No doubt, Wahid must have been embarrassed by my making one of his followers look stupid in public, and his getting me suspended AGAIN was his way of retaliating.

Meanwhile, the coward has fled Germany and moved to Australia.

https://wahidazal.blogspot.com/2019/12/back-in-australia-here-is-why.html

Since this asshole has lied about me being “racist” and lied about the moderators of the exBahai subreddit being agents of the Haifan Baha’is, what else could he have been lying about? Is it possible that he murdered his wife? Or did he even have a wife and daughter at all? Were those two family members, and the later death of his wife, made up by Wahid to gain public sympathy? Perhaps we will never know. He is responsible for so much fakery on the internet (even while accusing others of having fake identities), that it is impossible to be sure of anything about him now.

Betrayed by Wahid Azal (podcast)

Hello. I am Dale Husband, and today I’d like to talk about a certain individual known across the internet as Wahid Azal. Last month, he and I were friends and we made a podcast together in which we discussed the Baha’i Faith and I also talked briefly about my allegiance to Unitarian Universalism. A link to that is below in the description.

Well, a couple of weeks after this, Wahid was banned from the ExBahai subreddit, a link to which is also below,

https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/

and this was done for him fighting with another member and also making threats at the moderators of the subreddit. I expressed my profound disappointment over this, since he had clearly brought this punishment on himself.
His response to this was to turn completely against me and begin to attack me in the most ridiculous terms. A link to the blog entry documenting this is also below.

https://dalehusband.com/2019/09/02/wahid-azal-slanders-me-and-others-in-reddit/

Not content with this slander, he further defamed my character with a second video in which he accused me of somehow being racist. A link to THAT video is also below, so watch that diatribe and then come back and finish this.


OK? Question: How could it have been acceptable for him to collaborate with me only a month before and then begin slamming me for views and perspectives I do NOT have and he cannot prove I have regarding race relations? The simple truth is that Wahid Azal has always had a psychotic, bigoted hatred of white people. Now, of course white people in power have been responsible for a great many evil things over the past several centuries. Does that mean that ALL white people should be condemned for what their ancestors have done? Wahid Azal clearly thinks so. He only found me useful because of my devastating attacks against the Baha’i Faith, and thus I was an outlier to him, one of the “good” white people. Much like a white supremacist like Donald Trump can find “good” blacks useful to them even while demonizing blacks in general, such as Barack Obama. But the moment I stopped being useful to Azal, he began to treat me instead like he has always treated white people, as an enemy.
In addition to slandering me, he also attacked a reddit user named “Christian ExBahai” for being a white American and also repeatedly accused the moderators of the exbahai subreddit of being “gatekeepers” working for the Haifan Bahai leadership in some fashion. There is NO evidence for that claim either and it is certainly irrational for anyone to assume that all white people by their very nature MUST be racist. What would you call someone who asserts things as truth that are not factual?
His anger towards me stems solely from my refusing to be one of his few sycophants. Indeed, I am a sycophant to NO ONE; I am always my own person. If you work with me, we must be equals, I don’t blindly follow anyone. If he was thinking of me in those lowly terms, then he was wrong.
Many times he addressed me as a brother in our battles against the Baha’i Faith, but the thing about being someone’s brother is that you don’t allow simple disagreements to pull you apart from that other person. Wahid Azal is a liar, backstabber and bigot and no one should ever take his insane rants seriously.
Now, I have to wonder if others have also been betrayed and backstabbed by Wahid Azal just as I was. If that has happened to you, please send your story to dale_husband1@att.net and If I get one or more of those stories in the next few weeks, I will publish them in a future blog entry. In any case, beware of that extremist. Trust him at your peril.

Wahid Azal Slanders Me and Others in Reddit

Only two weeks after Wahid Azal and I did a podcast together, and after I intervened to prevent the moderators of the ExBahai subreddit from banning him, he repaid my help by stabbing me in the back! And he was expelled from the subreddit anyway.  He is proof that not all arguments against the Baha’i Faith and not all critics of the Baha’i Faith are created equal and I will work with him no more.

Anyway, here is the podcast he made attacking me.

He speaks of me starting about two minutes in. He accuses me of “shiftiness” and “brownnosing”, which I did not understand.  He also calls me racist and says that I, like all American liberals, are anti-Muslim, anti-Iranian, and pro-capitalist. Note: Making bigoted statements does nothing to defeat the bigotry of others, especially when that supposed bigotry of others is not even a real issue. Continue reading

Confronting Scott Hakala on Quora

Quora is a social media site where people can pose questions on all sorts of subjects and get answers from others. One of the most frequent posters on it is Scott Hakala, a Baha’i apologist.

Before I tell about my fight with him there, I must supply a bit of background.
For more than a year and a half after I made an account on reddit, Hakala, using the pseudonym “DavidBinOwen”, would often invade the ExBaha’i subreddit and relentlessly attack its members with counter arguments to things they would write. Then after wreaking havoc for a few days or weeks, he would disappear only to return weeks or months later. Things got so frustrating that Wahid Azal decided to do something to force the admin of that subreddit to deal with Hakala once and for all. So he posted these:
https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/comments/cnzclf/why_are_the_moderators_of_this_site_consistently/

https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/comments/co4u0o/beware_non_and_exbahais_of_this_subreddit/

I knew this might lead to Azal being banned from the subreddit, so to prevent that, I sent private messages to all the admin, playing “good cop” to Wahid Azal’s “bad cop”. My efforts paid off; nothing was done to Azal, but Hakala was FINALLY banned permanently from the subreddit.

Continue reading

The Absurdity of the “Orthodox Baha’i” Claims.

This is a direct sequel to I am NOT an “Orthodox” Baha’i!

I recently found a small group on reddit devoted to the teachings of a faction of Baha’is called “Orthodox”. This was one of the groups arising from the attempt by Hand of the Cause of God Charles Mason Remey to take over the Baha’i Faith in 1960 by claiming to be its second Guardian.

https://www.reddit.com/r/orthodoxbahai/

I looked into it and then made a crosspost between it and the exbahai subreddit with this:

This prompted a member of the first group to come in ours to defend his beliefs.

Continue reading