A massive fight with “DavidBinOwen” in reddit

Some people just can’t take a hint, can they? This happened in reddit recently:

There are a TON of comments that came after that post, so I will just provide the highlights.

I thought it was a bit creepy but I’m assuming there’s a reason this person is banned. My concern is that even if you block them they can still read the forum content and PM harassing messages to new members.

Also I think most people realize it’s just their desperate attempt to explain away the flaws and toxicities of Baha’i communities.

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He used to invade and harass people in this subreddit for many months, but little was done about it because back then this place had only ONE moderator (samanwilson) and he wasn’t around very often.

Things changed when samanwilson appointed the two other mods in response to a ton of complaints about the disruptions, and then imposed new rules. Then DavidBinOwen was finally banned because this place could be watched more often. It’s a lot safer for discussions than it was a couple of years ago.

I blocked DavidBinOwen long ago. He claimed to have known me when I was a Baha’i. but I don’t really remember him. If you want more details about him, contact me later.

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I went ahead and blocked him as well as he doesn’t seem worth the time and very toxic. He went on to clarify the ‘true text of huq’ and that he has PhD and he’s serves on the treasury, etc. I have a PhD myself from an Ivy League university and know those who manage huq, but I don’t think that makes me special… his hostile and condescending attitude/superiority complex is really off-putting yet common among many people at administrative levels of the faith. I don’t even see how the exact law of huq/ technicalities are relevant since we were discussing our real life experiences in Baha’i communities.

And if he feels ‘so sorry for us’ as he indicated I wonder why he feels so compelled to constantly monitor this board? Seems like people who send many people harassing messages out of the blue should eventually be banned from Reddit?

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I haven’t received any messages from him. But I found it strange he only pointed out 2 problems in your post and not anything about the spying from the community, the Baha’i ruling class etc. I personally don’t know which is true for the huquq, as I left before I have to do any of that, and secondly, those born Baha’i are definetely forced to remain a Baha’i by their parents. When I turned 15 I wasn’t given a choice. My family don’t let me be anything else than a Baha’i!

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It makes me sad because I know those who manage huq’ and they’re wonderful people. Not all Baha’is are like this DavidbinOwen person but there are enough Baha’is with hostile behaviors, condescending attitudes and hypocrisy that’s it’s repelled me from the faith entirely and it makes the community very toxic.

Further, you are indeed pressured constantly to give to huq—there are many lectures about it at adult Baha’i activities, fundraising events, and pressure from ABMs to disclose income and wealth information, and they advise you how much you should be giving to the fund.

Baha’is who marry non-Baha’is are under enormous pressure for their new spouses to convert. Everyone just keeps hoping they will eventually ‘see the light.’ Even if they don’t, the kids are expected to attend children’s classes and the faith is instilled in them from a young age. If the marriage doesn’t work out or there’s problems, the fact that ‘they’re not Baha’i’ will be blamed.

I’ve seen it among most of the youth—those born into Baha’i families really don’t have much choice about becoming Baha’i at 15. They are basically groomed for it from birth and the declaration card is really just a formality. If you leave the faith, you’re basically shunned/disowned from your family. There are some exceptions that I’ve seen but they are rare.

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Baha’is who marry non-Baha’is are under enormous pressure for their new spouses to convert. Everyone just keeps hoping they will eventually ‘see the light.’

If a couple have different “spiritual orientations”, insisting they both belong to the same faith is a type of abuse.
https://dalehusband.com/spiritual-orientation-series/

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The thing to remember about DavidBinOwen is that he is telling you what the Baha’i Faith officially teaches. In PRACTICE, as you point out, it is vastly different. Words don’t matter if actions contradict them later.

What the Faith taught before 1957:

Divorced from the institution of the Guardianship the World Order of Baha’u’llah would be mutilated and permanently deprived of that hereditary principle which, as Abdu’l-Baha has written, has been invariably upheld by the Law of God. …Without such an institution the integrity of the Faith would be imperiled, and the stability of the entire fabric would be gravely endangered. its prestige would suffer, the means required to enable it to take a long, an uninterrupted view over a series of generations would be completely lacking, and the necessary guidance to define the sphere of the legislative action of its elected representatives would be totally withdrawn.

Shoghi Effendi

What the Faith DID after 1963:

“the Universal House of Justice finds that there is no way to appoint or to legislate to make it possible to appoint a second Guardian to succeed Shoghi Effendi.”

And yet they continue down to this day as if what Shoghi Effendi wrote decades earlier didn’t matter.

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Then another user named John-7 barged in to pick a fight with us. His trolling did not last long. The quoted comments in lime italics are his.

If you mean the Auxiliary Board, they have nothing to do with the Huququllah.

They have the role in logistical arrangements. They and their assistants take part in conferences and Huquq drives. They do transmit Huquq guidelines at the grassroots level.

In Antananarivo, Madagascar, the delegates as well as the Counsellor, members of the Auxiliary Board, and some other believers were divided into three groups to study the document entitled “The Right of God and Its Relationship to the Current Plan”. The study of the document was facilitated by the Auxiliary Board members present. They found that by splitting into small groups it was easier for the friends to contribute to the consultation. The friends were very excited and shared that their understanding of the law grows year by year.

(Huququllah Newsletter, July 2019)

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Exactly. We had to study Huquq on many occasions in Baha’i adult study class and many of our ABMs were striving to be future members of BIC and UHJ.

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future members of BIC

You mean ITC?

Those serving in the administrative positions are always ambitious. I know how Firaydoun Javaheri became a UHJ member from an ordinary ABM.

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Yes I mean ITC, though for some reason many of those I know who serve on it or spouses serve on it refer to it as ‘BIC’

It seems to becoming more common that UHJ members come from the ITC now.

Yes they use their time as ABMs etc as campaigning for their future bid at the UHJ (the men of course).

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We actually figured out a couple of years ago that the election process of the UHJ was rigged to favor the male members of the ITC. One of us even predicted who the next UHJ member would be before the 2018 election…..and he was proven RIGHT! That was when we all realized the elections were a sham.

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Go read the quotes and show me a single document that says people have to disclose their wealth and income and that says people are forced to pay 19% of their wealth or income for the Huq to anyone in the Baha’i Faith.

News flash: It doesn’t matter what the Baha’i Writings SAY. What really counts is what Baha’is in positions of authority DEMAND from the rank and file members. For the record, they do NOT believe in stated principles like “Independent investigation of truth”. That’s just a deceptive talking point. And if they are hypocrites about that…

And I am not a Baha’i but related to and know a lot of Baha’is and investigated the Faith.

In short, you say you believe what they tell you, not what is really going on. Your ignorance is obvious.

And the fact that you show up from out of nowhere to attack us and have done almost nothing else tells me your are a fake account.
And what the hell did you think you were trying to do by posting THIS:

https://www.reddit.com/r/bahai/comments/hnu2cu/cross_post_about_the_huququllah_being_mandatory/

DAVIDBINOWEN, GET OUT!!!!

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LOL! I know this t0lk guy from many years ago. He’s a lying, backstabbing asshole and I believe NOTHING he says.

https://dalehusband.com/2018/04/08/treachery-of-bahais-reddit/

https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/comments/8at63r/new_bahai_history_blog_for_critics_of_the_faith

t0lk attacked us there when the reddit Baha’is attempted to steal our Baha’i history subreddit. This is how I dealt with him

t0lk said: [[[Would you be okay if Baha’is sent unsolicited private messages to anyone who posted in r/exbahai to tell them how wrong they were? Surely you can see that this isn’t appropriate behavior even if you feel very strongly about the subject.]]]

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I replied: {{{That does not contradict what I said at all. Here, let me repeat my point: “[Spam is] not merely attempting to share NEWS about a relevant topic that someone is clearly interested in.” By definition, criticism of the Baha’i Faith would be relevant to anyone investigating the Faith. So you LIED here!

You really think the stunt you pulled against us will help promote your Faith? The story of what you did is already OUT, t0lk! It’s out not only on WordPress where my original blog entry was posted, but also on Blogspot where it was copied and on Facebook where links to my blog entry were made.

Your arrogance and dishonesty are infuriating. Someone who gets unwanted messages once or twice can simply delete them. Are you seriously claiming that /u/A35821361 sent the same message DOZENS OF TIMES TO THE SAME RECIPIENT? That might indeed be spamming, if you could prove it was done that way.

This clearly shows how desperate you Baha’is have become. The internet will eventually discredit and DESTROY the Baha’i Faith and every other authoritarian cult that exists in the world. It may take another 30 or 40 years, but I have no doubt that a century from now the Baha’i community will exist only as a broken remnant in a few poor parts of the world, much like Zoroastrianism does in Iran and India now. You are only delaying the inevitable.}}}

The coward later deleted all the comments he made there…..and NOW the post YOU made there was deleted from the Baha’i subreddit. Seems they are afraid to deal with us!

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People who come here and try to misrepresent themselves on reddit (you certainly ARE a Baha’i because you act like one, so stop lying about your supposed impartiality), get what they deserve from me.

Demanding “evidence” of how Baha’i authorities conduct themselves behind closed doors is pointless. You don’t have to believe what Fresh-Rouge1855 said, but even you should know better than to ask for what you know is impossible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

Even if a recording of a Baha’i ABM doing what Fresh-Rouge1855 claimed was provided, you would most likely deny it as a desperate form of damage control. So why bother?

I wonder if you are fond of sea lions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

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Not only that but he does the exact same thing as he accuses us all doing—I didn’t find anything respectful at all from his harassing, insulting messages.

I agree, best way forward to deal with a character to like this is to ignore—it’s not worth the time. Eventually people will see truth and see though it all to make their own decisions after their experiences within the Baha’i communities. He can go on cherry picking references from the writings all he wants, at the end of the day we know the way the faith is really practiced and what it’s truly all about.

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Oh…..my…..God, that man is OBSESSED! Plus his writing style seems worse than ever, to the point I can hardly stand to read such looooooooong run on sentences. And that last potshot at me…….I have never said that persecution of people in Iran just for being Baha’i is acceptable, so that is clearly a smear tactic on his part.

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Unlike the Baha’is that swiftly ban without warning anyone that disagrees with them from their sub, we allow Baha’is to come here and express their opinions and defend their beliefs. DavidbinOwen crossed many lines and after multiple warnings was permanently banned.

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AS ex Bahais we are all aware of the rules/laws of the faith and how it is supposed to operate. But, the whole point is that this is not what we all experience. The faith is made up of human beings who chose to act In ways contrary to the laws and guidance. So don’t belittle another persons Actual experience, because it’s not inline with the laws of the faith.

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DavidBinOwen was not the only person that annoyed me there. This next person came in with his own agenda, also harmful to the subreddit’s mission.

Ever since I left the Baha’i faith, Baha’is have tried to get me to “study more” or “speak to their scholars.” But the more I do, the more I hate the ideology. You can’t get away from the fact that it was built on Islam (if you read the Quran, you’d know what a disgusting person Mohammad was).

But at least Mohammad was upfront about his intentions. Bahaullah created this facade to gain followers. Countless Baha’is have died and live a lie because of that charlatan.

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I wasn’t about to let this going off-topic remain unchallenged.

You can’t get away from the fact that [the Baha’i Faith] was built on Islam

You know how a chain is useless the moment it breaks at its weakest link?

If you can’t believe in Islam because you have a problem with the Prophet Muhammad, then how can you believe in the Baha’i Faith, because Baha’u’llah declared that Muhammad was a Manifestation of God, along with Jesus, and Moses.

(if you read the Quran, you’d know what a disgusting person Mohammad was).

Why single out Muhammad and the Quran? Read THIS!

https://dalehusband.com/2019/05/12/biblical-genocide-and-pedophilia/

Just reading that should blow your mind about ANY religion descended from ancient Judaism!

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I just read more of this Dale Husband guy’s stuff and he seems like kind of an asshat. While lots of the points he’s trying to get across are true, he doesn’t provide solid evidence. He seems to be driven by emotion and posts the first terrible thing he sees.

The Midianites in this passage were conspiring with other tribes to kill the Israelites. Lol, I sure as hell wouldn’t stand by and let my family get slaughtered! Also, there’s no evidence that the “young girls” or “virgins” were underage. The Israelites did it in self-defence; Mohammad committed atrocities because of the sick person he was.

Like I said in my previous comment, stick to the source, bro. Don’t escape one false teacher (in this case, Baha’u’llah) and fall into the claws of another. 😉 It’s tough out there. Lots of people want to take advantage of you. Be careful.

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I just read more of this Dale Husband guy’s stuff and he seems like kind of an asshat.

Gee, thanks. Can you be more insulting to my intelligence?

While lots of the points he’s trying to get across are true, he doesn’t provide solid evidence.

It was a condemnation of a STORY in the Bible depicting what would be considered today a WAR CRIME! It wasn’t about providing evidence for actual recent history.

The Midianites in this passage were conspiring with other tribes to kill the Israelites.

Really? Or were they just defending their own territory against these fanatical invaders who barged into the area from Egypt?

Also, there’s no evidence that the “young girls” or “virgins” were underage.

So the actual text of the scriptures doesn’t matter?

Moses said: But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves.

ALL the young girls, not just some of the older ones that may or may not have looked mature! Later in the story, it was said these girls numbered about 32,000, If even ONE of them was a CHILD, it was one too many!

Like I said in my previous comment, stick to the source, bro.

The source of that blog entry was the Bible itself!

Don’t escape one false teacher (in this case, Baha’u’llah) and fall into the claws of another. 😉 It’s tough out there. Lots of people want to take advantage of you. Be careful.

Hypocrite! You would make a great Christian apologist. But not an honest human being.

Mohammad committed atrocities because of the sick person he was.

Double standards are NEVER acceptable to me, no matter who tries to justify them. Atrocities are atrocities, period. Plus, Moses broke one of his own laws when he ordered the mass extermination of all the boys among the Midianites.

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. – Deuteronomy 24:16

So who is the asshat? It’s YOU, Sicypher. You appear to be an Islamophobe as much as an anti-Baha’i…..and I’m not having that crap of yours here. That’s why I brought up the issue of what Moses did…..to expose you for your improper agenda in bashing the Prophet Muhammad here. If you want to do THAT, go here instead:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/

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We went back and forth until I finally forced him to back down.

Anyway, I didn’t come here to debate. Sorry for calling you an asshat. I wish you all the best and that you see things for they truly are and not based on emotion.

Just because you make a few mistakes, are you not to be trusted at all? I like to look at a person’s character and intentions rather than judging them by a couple mistakes. The prophets lead people with truth and honour. I don’t know you, but even though you insulted me in your last comment, are just trying to help people realize what you believe to be true. That is one good thing I realized about you.

Like far too many people with strong opinions, he cannot publicly admit to be wrong……making him as problematic as DavidBinOwen.

Finally:

There are Huququ’llah drives. People are motivated through stories and incidents. Baha’is take full advantage of pilgrims notes, memoirs, stories and Kitab-i-Hearsay to extract emotionally whatever they can.

People are NOT supposed to disclose their wealth but they CAN if they are serious about Huquq and they don’t know how to calculate!

And I am not a Baha’i but related to and know a lot of Baha’is and investigated the Faith.

You are a liar, you are DavidbinOwen, that’s why I have banned you again.

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John-7 has been banned for being an obvious alternate account for DavidbinOwen

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The end!

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