An Attempt by a Transphobe to Turn r/UnitarianUniversalist into a War Zone.

I moderate this subreddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnitarianUniversalist

And one of the things I and the other mods have to watch for are bigoted trolls trying to invade our space and cause trouble for us to promote a regressive agenda.

So one day a stranger butts in and posts this:

Anti UU lies3

Anti UU lies61

It took me several hours to deal with the problem, and by then there had been a massive uproar over it. After carefully reviewing the situation, I banned the intruder.

Later, I posted this:

Which prompted the troll to make an alt account and post this:

Both of the posts that were deleted were done so by him before I was going to do it. The reason I didn’t delete his filth immediately was because I wanted to make screenshots of his attacks to use as evidence against him later. So……

Anti UU lies56Anti UU lies57

Anti UU lies58

In all the cases, I and most of the others in the subreddit debunked the troll’s lies and total nonsense.

The troll also attacked me directly through the mod channels.
https://imgur.com/a/xMMteja

Gee, I wonder if that idiot was taking legal lessons from Wahid Azal. Just sayin’…….

A TERF wrote a bigoted book that was published by Unitarian Universalists!

This is one of my favorite memes:

231302735_10219386701074647_4006009490190299697_n

Now read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transsexual_Empire

The Transsexual Empire: The Making of the She-Male is a 1979 book critical of transsexualism by American radical feminist author and activist Janice Raymond. The book is derived from Raymond’s dissertation, which was produced under the supervision of the feminist theologian Mary Daly.[1]

What makes this book especially disturbing is what company published that bigoted pile of crap. BEACON PRESS, the publishing arm of the Unitarian Universalist Association!

It’s a safe bet that the UUA of today would never endorse such a book.

A Critical Mistake in the UU World

And indeed, when I looked for this book on the Beacon Press website:

https://www.beacon.org/cw_Search.aspx?k=The+Transsexual+Empire

Search Results For ‘The Transsexual Empire’
Displaying items 0 – 0 of 0
No products match your search criteria or the criteria was not meaningful.

So that’s a relief. Oh, wait…..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transsexual_Empire#Publication_history

In 1979, the first edition of The Transsexual Empire was published by Beacon Press, a nonprofit publisher in Boston run by the Unitarian Universalist Association. In 1980, the book was published in the United Kingdom by The Women’s Press.[7] In 1994, a second edition was published by Teachers College Press.[8]

Hopefully, the book in the year 2024 is completely out of print and maybe it won’t be sold in bookstores anymore. But…..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janice_Raymond

Janice G. Raymond (born January 24, 1943)[citation needed] is an American lesbian radical feminist and professor emerita of women’s studies and medical ethics at the University of Massachusetts Amherst. She is known for her work against violence, sexual exploitation, and medical abuse of women, and for her controversial work denouncing transsexuality.

A LESBIAN?! Does that hypocrite not understand that her psychotic views against transgender people are EXACTLY the same as homophobes would be against her as a lesbian or male chauvinists would be against her as a feminist? She has NO credibility whatsoever!

TERFs are no better than MRAs

A former TERF defects and exposes the cultlike nature of the movement she once believed in.

And while Raymond may still be alive, her mentor Mary Daly died in 2010. What was her attitude towards men?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Daly#Career

Daly taught classes at Boston College from 1967 to 1999, including courses in theology, feminist ethics, and patriarchy.

Daly was first threatened with dismissal when, following the publication of her first book, The Church and the Second Sex (1968), she was issued a terminal (fixed-length) contract. As a result of support from the (then all-male) student body and the general public, however, Daly was ultimately granted tenure.

Daly’s refusal to admit male students to some of her classes at Boston College also resulted in disciplinary action. While Daly argued that their presence inhibited class discussion, Boston College took the view that her actions were in violation of title IX of federal law requiring the college to ensure that no person was excluded from an education program on the basis of sex, and of the university’s own non-discrimination policy insisting that all courses be open to both male and female students.

In 1989, Daly became an associate of the Women’s Institute for Freedom of the Press.[8]

In 1998, a discrimination claim against the college by two male students was backed by the Center for Individual Rights, a conservative advocacy group. Following further reprimand, Daly absented herself from classes rather than admit the male students.[9] Boston College removed her tenure rights, citing a verbal agreement by Daly to retire. She brought suit against the college disputing violation of her tenure rights and claimed she was forced out against her will, but her request for an injunction was denied by Middlesex Superior Court Judge Martha Sosman.[10]

A confidential out-of-court settlement was reached. The college maintains that Daly had agreed to retire from her faculty position,[11] while others assert she was forced out.[12][13] Daly maintained that Boston College wronged her students by depriving her of her right to teach freely to only female students.[14] She documented her account of the events in the 2006 book, Amazon Grace: Recalling the Courage to Sin Big.

So Daly was BIGOTED against men! As are most TERFs today.

You are either inclusive of all kinds of people, or you are not. I want NOTHING to do with the kind of toxic “feminism” that seeks to exclude and demonize men, even those that want to understand women and their views better!

The Bigotries of “Everyday Feminism”

It is BIGOTED to exclude white people from a course on black American or African history.

It is BIGOTED to exclude Christians from courses on Islamic history.

It is BIGOTED to exclude straight people from a course on LGBT issues and history.

We should either oppose ALL bigotry, or we are HYPOCRITES, period!

And the Unitarian Universalist Association needs to explicitly denounce “The Transsexual Empire” for the worthless shit it is!

The Incredible Stupidity of “Christians” Online

Watch this video:

OK, were you as shocked as I was? Here’s the original version of that song to restore your proper brain functions.

How desperate are Christians to mimic popular culture to try to reach out to the youth of the present age to win new converts to their religion? Well, if you are familiar with Batman and other superheros, how about the Christian version of one?

And looooooong before that, there was the “Heaven’s metal” band Stryper, which I heard so much about back when I was myself a Christian in the 1980s.

The basic premise of all these “Christian” things above is “if we give our youth versions of popular culture that meet OUR standards, they won’t be corrupted by the satanic stuff out there.”

Well, it is NOT working!

Rewriting a bigoted article about religion

Princess Leia was right!

Another former Christian rocker defects to non-theism

More to the point of why the efforts to mimic popular culture is failing, even some Christians themselves can see the nonsense for what it is.

But those who know better are not in control of the Christian churches, or “Christian” media outlets. So they are alienated.

Amy Grant, one of the most powerful Christian singers, faced a crisis of faith when she found herself divorcing fellow Christian artist Gary Chapman. Their both being Christian wasn’t enough to make their marriage work, because Chapman had a toxic personality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Chapman_(musician)#Personal_life

Chapman married Amy Grant on June 19, 1982. Grant filed for divorce from Chapman in March 1999, citing “irreconcilable differences”, and the divorce was finalized in June 1999.[16]

Chapman married Jennifer Pittman in July 2000. Chapman and Pittman divorced in 2007.[1]

On December 22, 2008, Chapman married Cassie Piersol.[1][17] The couple began a project called A Hymn a Week in 2010 to honor the musical heritage left to Chapman by his parents.[3] Chapman has stated that both his parents, who were small-town pastors for their entire lives, had a strong influence in his life and they “implanted the hymns into [his] heart”.

This is what happens when you are not firmly connected with REALITY.

Amy Grant found true love with another.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Grant#Personal_life

On March 10, 2000, Grant married country singer-songwriter Vince Gill, who had been previously married to country singer Janis Oliver of Sweethearts of the Rodeo.[51] Grant and Gill have one daughter together, Corrina Grant Gill, born March 12, 2001.[52]

In the November 1999 CCM Magazine, Grant explained why she left Chapman and married Gill:

I didn’t get a divorce because ‘I had a great marriage and then along came Vince Gill.’ Gary and I had a rocky road from day one. I think what was so hard—and this is (what) one of our counselors said—sometimes an innocent party can come into a situation, and they’re like a big spotlight. What they do is reveal, by comparison, the painful dynamics that are already in existence.[53]

Christians everywhere need to understand that their religion does not save anyone. Having a healthy personality can save people! I myself only learned that after going into and then out of ANOTHER dogmatic God-centered religion.

A Baha’i Divorce

After I left the Baha’i Faith, I realized that religion simply has nothing whatsoever to do with one’s character; if people have screwed up personalities, religion actually can make them worse by making them think that believing certain dogmas and following certain rituals will save them and make them great people before God and their fellow humans. I know from my own experience with myself and others that this is simply a lie.

Creeping Death

The title above refers to a song by the metal band Metallica.

That song is about the tenth plague God sent to Egypt to kill all of the firstborn of that nation. It is described in Exodus 11:1–12:36.

Chapter 11

1 The Lord said to Moses, “Yet one plague more I will bring upon Pharaoh and upon Egypt. Afterward he will let you go from here. When he lets you go, he will drive you away completely. Speak now in the hearing of the people, that they ask, every man of his neighbor and every woman of her neighbor, for silver and gold jewelry.” And the Lord gave the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians. Moreover, the man Moses was very great in the land of Egypt, in the sight of Pharaoh’s servants and in the sight of the people.

So Moses said, “Thus says the Lord: ‘About midnight I will go out in the midst of Egypt, and every firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sits on his throne, even to the firstborn of the slave girl who is behind the handmill, and all the firstborn of the cattle. There shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as there has never been, nor ever will be again. But not a dog shall growl against any of the people of Israel, either man or beast, that you may know that the Lord makes a distinction between Egypt and Israel.’ And all these your servants shall come down to me and bow down to me, saying, ‘Get out, you and all the people who follow you.’ And after that I will go out.” And he went out from Pharaoh in hot anger. Then the Lord said to Moses, “Pharaoh will not listen to you, that my wonders may be multiplied in the land of Egypt.”

10 Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh, and the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not let the people of Israel go out of his land.

Chapter 12

 1 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, “This month shall be for you the beginning of months. It shall be the first month of the year for you. Tell all the congregation of Israel that on the tenth day of this month every man shall take a lamb according to their fathers’ houses, a lamb for a household. And if the household is too small for a lamb, then he and his nearest neighbor shall take according to the number of persons; according to what each can eat you shall make your count for the lamb. Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male a year old. You may take it from the sheep or from the goats, and you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of this month, when the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill their lambs at twilight.[a]

“Then they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and the lintel of the houses in which they eat it. They shall eat the flesh that night, roasted on the fire; with unleavened bread and bitter herbs they shall eat it. Do not eat any of it raw or boiled in water, but roasted, its head with its legs and its inner parts. 10 And you shall let none of it remain until the morning; anything that remains until the morning you shall burn. 11 In this manner you shall eat it: with your belt fastened, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand. And you shall eat it in haste. It is the Lord‘s Passover. 12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and on all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am the Lord. 13 The blood shall be a sign for you, on the houses where you are. And when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and no plague will befall you to destroy you, when I strike the land of Egypt.

14 “This day shall be for you a memorial day, and you shall keep it as a feast to the Lord; throughout your generations, as a statute forever, you shall keep it as a feast. 15 Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. On the first day you shall remove leaven out of your houses, for if anyone eats what is leavened, from the first day until the seventh day, that person shall be cut off from Israel. 16 On the first day you shall hold a holy assembly, and on the seventh day a holy assembly. No work shall be done on those days. But what everyone needs to eat, that alone may be prepared by you. 17 And you shall observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread, for on this very day I brought your hosts out of the land of Egypt. Therefore you shall observe this day, throughout your generations, as a statute forever. 18 In the first month, from the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat unleavened bread until the twenty-first day of the month at evening. 19 For seven days no leaven is to be found in your houses. If anyone eats what is leavened, that person will be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is a sojourner or a native of the land. 20 You shall eat nothing leavened; in all your dwelling places you shall eat unleavened bread.”

21 Then Moses called all the elders of Israel and said to them, “Go and select lambs for yourselves according to your clans, and kill the Passover lamb. 22 Take a bunch of hyssop and dip it in the blood that is in the basin, and touch the lintel and the two doorposts with the blood that is in the basin. None of you shall go out of the door of his house until the morning. 23 For the Lord will pass through to strike the Egyptians, and when he sees the blood on the lintel and on the two doorposts, the Lord will pass over the door and will not allow the destroyer to enter your houses to strike you. 24 You shall observe this rite as a statute for you and for your sons forever. 25 And when you come to the land that the Lord will give you, as he has promised, you shall keep this service. 26 And when your children say to you, ‘What do you mean by this service?’ 27 you shall say, ‘It is the sacrifice of the Lord‘s Passover, for he passed over the houses of the people of Israel in Egypt, when he struck the Egyptians but spared our houses.’” And the people bowed their heads and worshiped.

28 Then the people of Israel went and did so; as the Lord had commanded Moses and Aaron, so they did.

29 At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of the livestock. 30 And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he and all his servants and all the Egyptians. And there was a great cry in Egypt, for there was not a house where someone was not dead. 31 Then he summoned Moses and Aaron by night and said, “Up, go out from among my people, both you and the people of Israel; and go, serve the Lord, as you have said. 32 Take your flocks and your herds, as you have said, and be gone, and bless me also!”

33 The Egyptians were urgent with the people to send them out of the land in haste. For they said, “We shall all be dead.” 34 So the people took their dough before it was leavened, their kneading bowls being bound up in their cloaks on their shoulders. 35 The people of Israel had also done as Moses told them, for they had asked the Egyptians for silver and gold jewelry and for clothing. 36 And the Lord had given the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they let them have what they asked. Thus they plundered the Egyptians.

_____________________________

Now read this:

God was a hypocrite?!

And of course, there was this:

Biblical Genocide and Pedophilia

And I repeat:

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. – Deuteronomy 24:16

But……wasn’t that last plague on Egypt, involving the deaths of all the firstborn of Egypt, a clear example of God violating one of his own laws? God was a hypocrite to Egypt, he was a hypocrite to the Midianites and then God was one yet again to King David!

And that is why I will NEVER again bow my knee to the God of the Bible. Quite simply:

 

The Strange Case of Lot and his Daughters

In Genesis chapter 19, two of God’s angels warn Lot that the city of Sodom will soon be destroyed because of the wickedness of the people, so he and his family must leave. Soon afterwards, Lot’s home is surrounded by many men who demand that the guests in his house surrender to them, so the men can rape them. Lot refuses and instead offers them his daughters (which is itself revolting as hell). The men of Sodom refuse this offer, so the angels then blind the men and enable Lot and his family to escape……except Lot’s wife dies when she looks back to see the destruction of the city, turning into a pillar of salt. And afterwards…….

Genesis 19:30-36

30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.

31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:

32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.

First of all, where did the girls get the alcohol to make their father drunk? They were in a cave, so they couldn’t have gone to a nearby bar to purchase alcoholic beverages. Did they have any money? And if they made their father so drunk he was unaware of his surroundings, sex was not an option,  due to his being unable to have an erection.

The reason for the strange telling of this story is because Lot was considered a “righteous” man. Well, so were the Duggars before their eldest son Josh was exposed as a CHILD RAPIST!

So this is what I really think could have happened:

30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.

31 And Lot said unto the firstborn, I am old, I have lost your mother and there is not a man in the earth I trust to be with you:

32 Come, let us lie together, that we may preserve seed of mine.

33 And the firstborn went in, and lay with her father;.

34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Lot said unto the younger, Behold, I will go in, and lie with you as I did with your sister, that we may preserve seed of mine.

35 And the younger arose, and lay with him;

36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.

So I think Lot raped his daughters, not the other way around.

Has Ayaan Hirsi Ali Lost her Mind?!

Read this:

https://unherd.com/2023/11/why-i-am-now-a-christian/

Why I am now a Christian

Atheism can’t equip us for civilisational war

In 2002, I discovered a 1927 lecture by Bertrand Russell entitled “Why I am Not a Christian”. It did not cross my mind, as I read it, that one day, nearly a century after he delivered it to the South London branch of the National Secular Society, I would be compelled to write an essay with precisely the opposite title.

For the record, here is Russell’s actual lecture:

https://users.drew.edu/~jlenz/whynot.html

Why I Am Not a Christian  (1927)

By Bertrand Russell

As your Chairman has told you, the subject about which I am going to speak to you tonight is ‘Why I am not a Christian’. Perhaps it would be as well, first of all, to try to make out what one means by the word ‘Christian’. It is used these days in a very loose sense by a great many people. Some people mean no more by it than a person who attempts to live a good life. In that sense I suppose there would be Christians in all sects and creeds; but I do not think that that is the proper sense of the word, if only because it would imply that all the people who are not Christians—all the Buddhists, Confucians, Mohammedans [sic] , and so on—are not trying to live a good life. I do not mean by a Christian any person who tries to live decently according to his lights. I think that you must have a certain amount of definite belief before you have a right to call yourself a Christian. The word does not have quite such a full-blooded meaning now as it had in the times of St Augustine and St Thomas Aquinas. In those days, if a man said that he was a Christian it was known what he meant. You accepted a whole collection of creeds which were set out with great precision, and every single syllable of those creeds you believed with the whole strength of your convictions.

So immediately Russell does what any person wanting to be fair and accurate would do: give a proper definition of being a Christian believer. He did this to debunk the all too common idea that Christianity = goodness. Christians themselves should appreciate that; I’m sure most of them would object to someone like Carl Sagan being called Christian (he was brought up Jewish, actually) just for being good.

From now on I will put Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s words in purple and Bertrand Russell’s words in red so you can compare them directly. And I will make responses to both as I go. Continuing…..

The year before, I had publicly condemned the terrorist attacks of the 19 men who had hijacked passenger jets and crashed them into the twin towers in New York. They had done it in the name of my religion, Islam. I was a Muslim then, although not a practising one. If I truly condemned their actions, then where did that leave me? The underlying principle that justified the attacks was religious, after all: the idea of Jihad or Holy War against the infidels. Was it possible for me, as for many members of the Muslim community, simply to distance myself from the action and its horrific results?

Of course it is possible! Does the Quran explicitly command the destruction of civilian targets like the World Trade Center? Indeed, why was that targeted at all? The targeting of the Pentagon that same day may have made sense from a military standpoint, but hitting a non-military building is never cool. Her faith in Islam need not have been shaken by such nonsense, really.

At the time, there were many eminent leaders in the West — politicians, scholars, journalists, and other experts — who insisted that the terrorists were motivated by reasons other than the ones they and their leader Osama Bin Laden had articulated so clearly. So Islam had an alibi.

This excuse-making was not only condescending towards Muslims. It also gave many Westerners a chance to retreat into denial. Blaming the errors of US foreign policy was easier than contemplating the possibility that we were confronted with a religious war. We have seen a similar tendency in the past five weeks, as millions of people sympathetic to the plight of Gazans seek to rationalise the October 7 terrorist attacks as a justified response to the policies of the Israeli government.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is actually starting to drop the ball here. I know enough about Islam to recognize that its concept of Jihad (holy war) is always meant to be defensive in nature, never offensive.

Surah 2: The Cow

190 Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.

191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

192 But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

193 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.

So the attack against the World Trade Center actually violated what the Quran taught.  In addition to the building complex being peaceful in nature, Muslims could have been working there that day and could have died there.

Plus both Israel and America have committed wrongful acts towards Arabs and Muslims on many occasions.

Israel is a nation of BIGOTRY!

Israel Commits Another War Crime

Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan and the USA

The Absurdity of the Iraq War

The fact that not all Muslims are anti-American terrorists and that history is full of examples of Israeli and American acts of aggression justifies the even-handed approach of western journalists and scholars. We shouldn’t be like FOX News, after all.

When I read Russell’s lecture, I found my cognitive dissonance easing. It was a relief to adopt an attitude of scepticism towards religious doctrine, discard my faith in God and declare that no such entity existed. Best of all, I could reject the existence of hell and the danger of everlasting punishment.

Russell’s assertion that religion is based primarily on fear resonated with me. I had lived for too long in terror of all the gruesome punishments that awaited me. While I had abandoned all the rational reasons for believing in God, that irrational fear of hellfire still lingered. Russell’s conclusion thus came as something of a relief: “When I die, I shall rot.”

Let’s see what Russell actually said.

THE ARGUMENT FOR THE REMEDYING OF INJUSTICE

Then there is another very curious form of moral argument, which is this: they say that the existence of God is required in order to bring justice into the world. In the part of this universe that we know there is great injustice, and often the good suffer, and often the wicked prosper, and one hardly knows which of those is the more annoying; but if you are going to have justice in the universe as a whole you have to suppose a future life to redress the balance of life here on earth. So they say that there must be a God, and there must be heaven and hell in order that in the long run there may be justice. That is a very curious argument. If you looked at the matter from a scientific point of view, you would say: ‘After all, I know only this world. I do not know about the rest of the universe, but so far as one can argue at all on probabilities one would say that probably this world is a fair sample, and if there is injustice here the odds are that there is injustice elsewhere also.’ Supposing you got a crate of oranges that you opened, and you found all the top layer of oranges bad, you would not argue: ‘The underneath ones must be good, so as to redress the balance.’ You would say: ‘Probably the whole lot is a bad consignment’; and that is really what a scientific person would argue about the universe. He would say: ‘Here we find in this world a great deal of injustice and so far as that goes that is a reason for supposing that justice does not rule in the world; and therefore so far as it goes it affords a moral argument against deity and not in favour of one.’ Of course I know that the sort of intellectual arguments that I have been talking to you about are not what really moves people. What really moves people to believe in God is not any intellectual argument at all. Most people believe in God because they have been taught from early infancy to do it, and that is the main reason.

Then I think that the next most powerful reason is the wish for safety, a sort of feeling that there is a big brother who will look after you. That plays a very profound part in influencing people’s desire for a belief in God.

Continuing…..

To understand why I became an atheist 20 years ago, you first need to understand the kind of Muslim I had been. I was a teenager when the Muslim Brotherhood penetrated my community in Nairobi, Kenya, in 1985. I don’t think I had even understood religious practice before the coming of the Brotherhood. I had endured the rituals of ablutions, prayers and fasting as tedious and pointless.

The preachers of the Muslim Brotherhood changed this. They articulated a direction: the straight path. A purpose: to work towards admission into Allah’s paradise after death. A method: the Prophet’s instruction manual of do’s and don’ts — the halal and the haram. As a detailed supplement to the Qur’an, the hadeeth spelled out how to put into practice the difference between right and wrong, good and evil, God and the devil.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali then proceeds to detail some of the intolerance that was indoctrinated into her and other Muslims in Africa, including anti-Semitism.

But then we see a wrong turn:

So, what changed? Why do I call myself a Christian now?

Part of the answer is global. Western civilisation is under threat from three different but related forces: the resurgence of great-power authoritarianism and expansionism in the forms of the Chinese Communist Party and Vladimir Putin’s Russia; the rise of global Islamism, which threatens to mobilise a vast population against the West; and the viral spread of woke ideology, which is eating into the moral fibre of the next generation.

The first two are certainly valid concerns. But “woke ideology”? That’s the imaginary target of right-wing bigots, not a threat to people in general, Progressive, liberal, and leftist people do not speak of themselves as having “woke ideology”. That’s almost like calling a person of African descent a “nigger”. Seeing an actual person from Africa use such a bigoted slur is shocking.

But we can’t fight off these formidable forces unless we can answer the question: what is it that unites us? The response that “God is dead!” seems insufficient. So, too, does the attempt to find solace in “the rules-based liberal international order”. The only credible answer, I believe, lies in our desire to uphold the legacy of the Judeo-Christian tradition.

That legacy consists of an elaborate set of ideas and institutions designed to safeguard human life, freedom and dignity — from the nation state and the rule of law to the institutions of science, health and learning. As Tom Holland has shown in his marvellous book Dominion, all sorts of apparently secular freedoms — of the market, of conscience and of the press — find their roots in Christianity.

Is she seriously claiming that non-Christians cannot share in those secular concepts? Or that debunking Christianity automatically debunks those concepts too? That’s quite a stretch!

To me, this freedom of conscience and speech is perhaps the greatest benefit of Western civilisation. It does not come naturally to man. It is the product of centuries of debate within Jewish and Christian communities. It was these debates that advanced science and reason, diminished cruelty, suppressed superstitions, and built institutions to order and protect life, while guaranteeing freedom to as many people as possible. Unlike Islam, Christianity outgrew its dogmatic stage. It became increasingly clear that Christ’s teaching implied not only a circumscribed role for religion as something separate from politics. It also implied compassion for the sinner and humility for the believer.

History has shown that Christians in Europe spent over 1000 years ignoring or rejecting concepts of personal freedom, with kings and emperors ruling over the people and that only the constant threat of violence resulting from the Protestant Reformation and the reactions of the Roman Catholic Church to that finally made European leaders realize that the absolute power of religion needed to be restrained, if not broken completely. Also, her claim that “Christianity outgrew its dogmatic stage” is laughably FALSE! There are plenty of authoritarian cults within Christianity and its many subdivisions. I grew up in one of them. And the aforementioned Catholic Church is highly dogmatic too. 

Yet I would not be truthful if I attributed my embrace of Christianity solely to the realisation that atheism is too weak and divisive a doctrine to fortify us against our menacing foes. I have also turned to Christianity because I ultimately found life without any spiritual solace unendurable — indeed very nearly self-destructive. Atheism failed to answer a simple question: what is the meaning and purpose of life?

If she turned to Christianity because it fit her Spiritual Orientation, so be it. But that doesn’t give her the right to talk down to those that are still atheist and have a different orientation. 

Russell and other activist atheists believed that with the rejection of God we would enter an age of reason and intelligent humanism. But the “God hole” — the void left by the retreat of the church — has merely been filled by a jumble of irrational quasi-religious dogma. The result is a world where modern cults prey on the dislocated masses, offering them spurious reasons for being and action — mostly by engaging in virtue-signalling theatre on behalf of a victimised minority or our supposedly doomed planet. The line often attributed to G.K. Chesterton has turned into a prophecy: “When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.”

This simply makes no sense to me at all. After I stopped believing in God, I did not accept things like astrology or homeopathy. I insisted on evidence before accepting anything as true. Ironically, it was when I stopped demanding clear evidence for something and allowed myself to be manipulated emotionally that I converted to the Baha’i Faith, which I would eventually leave. Because of that experience, I think I know what really happened to Ayaan Hirsi Ali. That essay she wrote is a product of her being brainwashed.

We can’t withstand China, Russia and Iran if we can’t explain to our populations why it matters that we do. 

Respect for our common humanity is not enough? It is for me!

We can’t fight woke ideology if we can’t defend the civilisation that it is determined to destroy.

That is (to me, at least) insane. Progressive ideologies seek to improve civilization, not destroy anything. She is afraid of something that is actually harmless.

The lesson I learned from my years with the Muslim Brotherhood was the power of a unifying story, embedded in the foundational texts of Islam, to attract, engage and mobilise the Muslim masses. Unless we offer something as meaningful, I fear the erosion of our civilisation will continue. And fortunately, there is no need to look for some new-age concoction of medication and mindfulness. Christianity has it all.

Actually, that is a delusion, just as bad as that of Muslim bigots. There is no evidence that Christianity is true and indeed Ayaan Hirsi Ali hasn’t provided any. And that’s what should matter, not your misplaced feelings.

So I dismiss her claims for the rubbish it looks like to me.

How Will the Dead be Judged?

One of the teachings of evangelical Christianity is that faith in Jesus as your savior is the only thing that is required to be saved from your sins and go to heaven. This was taught by the Apostle Paul in his writings to the churches he helped found.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%202&version=KJV

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

But this is contradicted by what the Apostle John wrote in the book of Revelation.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2020&version=KJV

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

1And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

And Jesus himself said:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207&version=KJV

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Considering that Jesus was the one that founded the Christian religion, and John was a disciple of his from the start, it is clear that Paul, who only claimed to be an Apostle long after the time of Jesus, was a false teacher. He never should have been accepted as a legitimate Christian!

And yet he was able to corrupt the New Testament, and then all of Christianity itself, forever!

Danny Bastardson and his Idiotic Defenders

Read this:

https://apnews.com/article/danny-masterson-sentencing-rape-trial-fd7a10eda44d0e3ddde582d4c7053eb6

‘That ’70s Show’ actor Danny Masterson gets 30 years to life in prison for rapes of 2 women

LOS ANGELES (AP) — A judge sentenced “That ’70s Show” show star Danny Masterson to 30 years to life in prison Thursday for raping two women, giving them some relief after they spoke in court about the decades of damage he inflicted.

“When you raped me, you stole from me,” said one woman who Masterson was convicted of raping in 2003. “That’s what rape is, a theft of the spirit.”

“You are pathetic, disturbed and completely violent,” she said. “The world is better off with you in prison.”

Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Charlaine F. Olmedo handed down the sentence to the 47-year-old Masterson after hearing statements from the women, and pleas for fairness from defense attorneys.

The actor, who has been in custody since May, sat in court wearing a suit. Masterson watched the women without visible reaction as they spoke. He maintains his innocence and his attorneys plan to appeal.

The other woman Masterson was found guilty of raping said he “has not shown an ounce of remorse for the pain he caused.” She told the judge, “I knew he belonged behind bars for the safety of all the women he came into contact with. I am so sorry, and I’m so upset. I wish I’d reported him sooner to the police.”

After an initial jury failed to reach verdicts on three counts of rape in December and a mistrial was declared, prosecutors retried Masterson on all three counts earlier this year.

Masterson waived his right to speak before he was sentenced and had no visible reaction after the judge’s decision, nor did the many family members sitting beside him. His wife, actor Bijou Phillips, was tearful earlier in the hearing.

At his second trial, a jury found Masterson guilty of two of three rape counts on May 31. Both attacks took place in Masterson’s Hollywood-area home in 2003, when he was at the height of his fame on the Fox network sitcom “That ’70s Show.”

They could not reach a verdict on the third count, an allegation that Masterson also raped a longtime girlfriend.

The judge sentenced the actor after rejecting a defense motion for a new trial that was argued earlier Thursday. The sentence was the maximum allowed by law. It means Masterson will be eligible for parole after serving 25 1/2 years, but can be held in prison for life.

“I know that you’re sitting here steadfast in your claims of innocence, and thus no doubt feeling victimized by a justice system that has failed you,” Olmedo told Masterson before handing down the sentence. “But Mr. Masterson, you are not the victim here. Your actions 20 years ago took away another person’s voice, and choice. One way or another you will have to come to terms with your prior actions, and their consequences.”

The defense sought to have sentences for the two convictions run simultaneously, and asked for a sentence of 15 years to life. The prosecution asked for the full 30 years to life sentence Masterson was eligible for.

“It’s his life that will be impacted by what you decide today,” Masterson’s lawyer Shawn Holley told the judge before the sentencing. “And the life of his 9-year-old daughter, who means the world to him, and to whom he means the world.”

After the hearing, Holley said in a statement that “Mr. Masterson did not commit the crimes for which he was convicted.” She said a team of appellate lawyers has identified “a number of significant evidentiary and constitutional issues” with his convictions, which they are confident will be overturned.

Prosecutors alleged that Masterson used his prominence in the Church of Scientology — where all three women were also members at the time — to avoid consequences for decades after the attacks, and the women blamed the church for their hesitancy in going to police about Masterson.

At the sentencing hearing, one of the women, who like Masterson was born into the church, said she was shunned and ostracized for going to authorities in 2004.

“I lost everything. I lost my religion. I lost my ability to contact anyone I’d known or loved my entire life,” she said. “I didn’t exist outside the Scientology world. I had to start my life all over at 29. It seemed the world I knew didn’t want me to live.”

The church said in a statement after the trial that it has “no policy prohibiting or discouraging members from reporting criminal conduct of anyone — Scientologists or not — to law enforcement.” It has also denied ever harassing any of the women.

No charges came from the woman’s 2004 police report, but she returned to authorities when she learned they were investigating Masterson again in 2016. The other two women had waited more than 15 years before reporting him to anyone other than church officials.

The women testified at both trials that in 2003, they were at Masterson’s home when he drugged them before violently raping them.

They said Thursday that the trauma plagued them for the decades that followed, hurting their relationships and filling their lives with fear. But they said his sentencing gave them some relief.

“I don’t have to carry your shame around with me anymore,” the first woman who spoke said. “Now you have to hold that shame. You have to sit in a cell and hold it.”

Masterson starred with Ashton Kutcher, Mila Kunis and Topher Grace in “That ’70s Show” from 1998 until 2006.

He had reunited with Kutcher on the 2016 Netflix comedy “The Ranch,” but was written off the show when the Los Angeles Police Department investigation was revealed the following year.

While that investigation began before a wave of women shook Hollywood with stories about Harvey Weinstein in October 2017, the conviction and sentencing of Masterson still represents a major #MeToo era success for Los Angeles prosecutors, along with the conviction of Weinstein himself last year.

__________________

  1. I’ve never watched “That 70’s Show” so I knew nothing about Masterson before his rape trial. To me, he was just another Hollowierd idiot.
  2. That Masterson is a Scientologist, as were his victims, does not surprize me. After all, cults like that rape people’s minds, why not their bodies too?

That’s bad. But this is WORSE:

https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/ashton-kutcher-mila-kunis-wrote-letters-in-support-of-danny-masterson/

Ashton Kutcher, Mila Kunis wrote letters in support of Danny Masterson

Actors Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis wrote letters to a judge saying they considered fellow “That ’70s Show” actor Danny Masterson a “role model” before he was sentenced Thursday to 30 years to life in state prison for raping two women at his Hollywood Hills home about two decades ago.

Kutcher and his wife, Kunis, who also appeared on “That ’70s Show” with Masterson between 1998 and 2006, each credited Masterson for his commitment to his wife and daughter and for discouraging the use of drugs.

Kutcher wrote in a letter to Superior Court Judge Charlaine F. Olmedo that he was 20 when he met Masterson in 1998 and “he instantly became a friend, dedicated co-worker, and role model to me. And has remained as such for 25 years.”

Kutcher wrote in the letter that Masterson is “an extraordinarily honest and intentional human being,” that the two spent hundreds of hours working together and “set an extraordinary standard around how you treat other people.”

He wrote that he and Masterson, the father of a 9-year-old daughter with actress-wife Bijou Phillips Masterson, “have spent countless hours together with our kids and he is among few people that I would trust to be alone with my son and daughter.”

“While I’m aware that the judgment has been cast as guilty on two counts of rape by force and fear and the victims have a great desire for justice, I hope that my testament to his character is taken into consideration in sentencing. I do not believe he is an ongoing harm to society and having his daughter raised without a present father would (be) a tertiary injustice in and of itself.”

In her letter to the judge, Kunis wrote that she “could sense his innate goodness and genuine nature” from the very beginning after meeting him and that he has “proven to be an amazing friend, confidant, and, above all, an outstanding older brother figure to me.”

“I wholeheartedly vouch for Danny Masterson’s exceptional character and the tremendous positive influence he has had on me and the people around him. His dedication to leading a drug-free life and the genuine care he extends to others make him an outstanding role model and friend,” wrote Kunis.

Also writing letters in support of Masterson were fellow “That ’70s  Show” co-stars Debra Jo Rupp and Kurtwood Smith. Other celebrities also wrote letters about Masterson, including actor Giovanni Ribisi and Masterson’s brother-in-law, actor Billy Baldwin.

During Masterson’s sentencing hearing Thursday, the judge noted that she had received a number of letters on behalf of Masterson and had read all of them.

The judge told the 47-year-old actor shortly before imposing the sentence that she knew that he was “sitting here steadfastly on your claims of innocence.”

“Mr. Masterson, you are not the victim here,” the judge said, telling him that his actions had taken away another person’s voice and choice and that the victims each reported the rapes to someone shortly afterward.

3. WHAT IDIOCY! That’s an example of the “Daddy never raped me” defense. If you rape ANYONE, it does not matter how nice you were to others!

Next:

4. This shit reminds me of another case of a questionable person supporting a known criminal: https://dalehusband.com/2014/09/11/michael-shermer-traitor/    I eventually learned enough disgusting things about Shermer that I put him on my “Enemies of Truth and Justice” list. He is a fraud and maybe Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis are too. I think if you defend a rapist, you might as well be one!

5. To put it bluntly, all the references to Masterson being anti-drug mean NOTHING to me, but are purely a result of most Americans being brainwashed about how “evil” certain drugs are. People who take drugs are only damaging themselves, and people who deal drugs are taking part in a market of willing sellers and willing buyers, which is actually the essence of capitalism. RAPISTS, on the other hand, damage OTHERS! So Masterson is worse than a drug dealer!

And finally:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ashton-kutcher-resigns-anti-child-trafficking-nonprofit-danny-masterson-character-letter-mila-kunis/

Ashton Kutcher resigns from anti-child trafficking nonprofit over Danny Masterson character letter

Actor Ashton Kutcher has stepped down as board chair of an anti-child trafficking group that he co-founded in the wake of criticism he received over a letter of support he penned on behalf of his former “That ’70s Show” co-star Danny Masterson following Masterson’s criminal conviction for raping two women.

In a resignation letter posted on the website of the group Thorn, Kutcher wrote that he “cannot allow my error in judgment to distract from our efforts and the children we serve.”

In June, the 43-year-old Masterson was found guilty of raping two women at his Hollywood Hills home in the early 2000s.

Both Kutcher and his wife Mila Kunis, who also starred on the popular sitcom, were among dozens of colleagues, relatives and friends who wrote letters of support to a Los Angeles County judge ahead of Masterson’s sentencing hearing last week asking for leniency.

Despite the letters, Masterson was sentenced to 30 years to life in prison, the maximum allowable under the law.

In his letter to L.A. County Superior Court Judge Charlaine F. Olmedo, Kutcher called Masterson a “role model” and “an extraordinarily honest and intentional human being” who “set an extraordinary standard around how you treat other people.”

Kutcher also wrote that he believes Masterson is not an ongoing harm to society and that the accused actor is one of the few people he would trust to be alone with his children.

Following significant backlash, Kutcher and Kunis posted a video to social media in which they said they did not mean to discount the trauma and experiences of Masterson’s victims.

“The letters were not written to question the legitimacy of the judicial system or the validity of the jury’s ruling,” Kunis said. “We support victims.”

In his resignation letter Thursday, Kutcher wrote that he came to the decision to resign after he and Kunis “spent several days of listening, personal reflection, learning, and conversations with survivors and the employees and leadership at Thorn.”

He went on to give a “heartfelt apology to all victims of sexual violence and everyone at Thorn who I hurt by what I did.”

Kutcher, Kunis and Masterson co-starred on “That ’70s Show” from 1998 to 2006. Masterson later starred with Kutcher in the Netflix comedy series “The Ranch,” which ran for four seasons from 2016 to 2020. However, Masterson only appeared in the first three seasons and was fired from the show in December 2017 after the rape allegations surfaced. 

6. Yeah, I’m glad you resigned because if you hadn’t, you should have been FIRED! I don’t want creeps like you and your wife around kids or advocating for victims of sexual abuse at all. Credibility is everything to such groups….and you clearly have none!

7. And I hope you idiots never get another acting job as well!

Fuck Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis!!!

More Gaslighting from Wahid Azal and his Sidekick, Stephen Beyer

After I posted my last blog entry, I got this comment on it.

Another unfair suspension from reddit!

stephan paul beyer says:
 
 
I addressed this nonsense directly
 
Look, Stephen…..you and Wahid are the ones who live constantly in your delusional fantasy world (and I’m not just referring to your being Bayanis or others being Baha’is; I don’t care that much about PRIVATE religious beliefs as long as you LEAVE OTHERS THE HELL ALONE). Wahid was expelled from r/exbahai after he exposed himself (no pun intended) as far more of a liability than an asset to the exBaha’i cause. Credibility is everything to me and it is obvious to me that Wahid constantly makes up tons of totally baseless SHIT to get attention to himself, regardless of the damage he does to others or even himself! We simply can’t have people like him who constantly engage in slander, libel, defamation and misrepresentation of me, the other mods of r/exbahai, or others. Because if we tolerate that……then we only give support to Baha’is who claim we of r/exbahai spread “misinformation” about their Faith…..because that’s exactly what Wahid does for real! Since you keep supporting him, you are no better than him and you deserve the same fate as him. Goodbye and good riddance!
 
Making cheap shots at my creations is no way to have a discussion about them, asshole! You don’t even bother linking to the specific videos you refer to, so FUK OFF!
 
And then I banned him.
 
Shortly after that, he and Wahid teamed up to defame me again. And in doing so, Wahid exposed his own ignorance about my past dealings with assholes like him on the internet.
 
 

by 

does anyone want to tell him?

Seeker_Alpha1701 via r/exbahai sent 2 months ago

show parent

this is like claiming Muhammad claimed to be Gabriel or Allah because The Prophet quotes what they say.

You’ve never read the Quran, have you? Can you show us where Muhammad said, “I am Allah” ?

No, you can’t because the very idea of anyone, even a Messenger of God, claiming to be one with God himself is completely against Islam. That’s an idea that came from (the Trinitarian version of) Christianity. No wonder u/investigator919 thought you were arguing in bad faith (pun intended) and banned you!

____________________

i mean i cant read arabic. i can only read translations. so he is correct that i have never read the quran. but its pretty clear he did not comprehend whatever he thought he read. and perhaps only read commentary dismissing islam as a fundamentalist religion. he is so clueless that it hurts to even try to understand his viewpoint to refute it.

______________________

The Qurʾān generally styles itself as divine speech by employing the first person singular or plural (“I” or “we”) in statements that clearly refer to the Deity. However, this divine voice alternates with third-person statements about God. Utterances by Muhammad are normally introduced by the command “Say:…,” thus emphasizing that the Prophet is speaking on divine injunction only. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Quran
________________________
 

Gomer’s IR handlers have convinced him that theopathic claims are somehow unique to Babism and bahaism when it is actually at the core foundation of Islam itself, arguably expressly articulated within the Quran, and specifically and especially in Shiism, not to mention Sufism. These handlers are already bad faith actors misleading everyone as to their true agenda, but with Gomer they have so led him down the garden path in unbelievable ways that every time he puts finger to keyboard he reveals a little more of his ignorance. The fact that he comes from a Southern Baptist Protestant background doesn’t help matters either.

__________________

https://dalehusband.com/enemies-of-truth-and-justice/ how do i get on this list? i want to be an enemy of what he considers to be truth and what he considers justice. . .

_______________________
 

We’ve already made it on his list. Look at the bottom. The guy is so obsessed and unhinged he is doing us the service with his published rants. I’ve actually had people come to me after encountering his blog and tell me Dale is our best promoter yet, since there is no publicity like bad publicity, and once people carefully look at his rants and conniptions it just proves the opposite of what he says and gives us the credibility instead. So as the great Persian saying has it, “the enemy shall be the cause of good,”

عدو سبب خير شود

Furthermore, since Gomer is a terrible student of history, if he had only bothered to research a little bit about other individuals who have entangled with me on the same level as he has – like Paul Andrew Hammond once did – he would quickly discover that it never ends well for them. But he can’t believe that and has never encountered something like me before, so his obsessive-compulsion born from utter frustration just augments and accentuates from one day to the next and thereby plays into my hands until one fine day – just like Hammond before him – his balloon of hot air pops with a bang and permanently puts him in his place! I suspect this may have already happened to DBO on some level as well since he is hardly here anymore.

_________________________

Wow! Where do I start?

First, I have seen enough episodes of the YouTube channel Apple Texts and other such related channels over the past year to know that such blatant lies those two are telling about me, my blog and Islam must be rejected for the gaslighting they are. There is NO case in Islam of any genuine Prophet of God identifying himself as being the same as Allah’s essence. That is the very definition of blasphemy. Just because the early Christians came up with the Trinity to depict Jesus as being the same as “God the Son” doesn’t make it acceptable in any other religion. Islam explicitly rejects the Trinity and the Deity of Jesus or any other Messenger of God, full stop! Even the term “Manifestation of God” used by Baha’is to refer to Baha’u’llah, Jesus, Muhammad and other Messengers of God is foreign to Islam. Even as an atheist, I have enough respect for Islam not to misrepresent the religion and its teachings about Allah and His Messengers. Note that Wahid never showed a direct quote from the Quran to support his lies. 

Second, I have indeed dealt with narcissists, abusers and pathological liars like Wahid Azal before. I have seen the incredible amount of damage they can do if left unchecked, so maybe that explains my “obsession” with Wahid Azal now. 

Many years ago, I was a member of a web community called Care2, which was made to provide a place for liberals, progressives, and environmentalists to gather together and coordinate their efforts for their chosen causes. Sadly, many right-wingers, conservatives, and others opposed to liberals invaded that community and disrupted it over the years, claiming they were promoters of “free speech”. And the ringleader of those attackers was Jeffery Williams, who was almost exactly like Donald Trump in that he was narcissistic, arrogant and totally dishonest and treacherous. And he was also an ATHEIST. Williams finally was banned from Care2 and is now in prison for abusing homeless men for perverted entertainment purposes, but the damage to Care2 as a social site was already done.
 
Which eventually led to this:

And what happened to Jeffery Williams eventually?

https://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/two-to-be-sentenced-in-shefightsnet-fetish-beating-videos/2176069/

A judge gave prison sentences on Monday to two people behind an internet fetish video that showed a mentally disabled man being kicked and beaten.

Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge Keith Meyer sentenced Shefights.net producer and entrepreneur Jeffery Williams, 61, to seven years in prison. He gave performer Zuzu Vargo, 27, roughly three years in prison, plus three years’ probation.

Both defendants apologized in court. Vargo, in tears, said she did not know the man she was punching and kicking in the video was mentally impaired. She said others checked the men out before making the videos.

But, she said, “I shouldn’t have trusted the judgment of someone else. … I’m so sorry for all the trauma and distress.”

Williams also professed ignorance to the victim’s mental condition and said it was a key principle within the bondage-sadomasochism community that nobody inflicts more pain than a person wants to receive.

“We’re not in the business of hurting people … we’re in the business of a fantasy enactment for a certain subset of the population.” Williams added that, “I deeply regret the pain and the anguish that we caused.”

But Assistant State Attorney Susan St. John said the victim’s mental condition would have been obvious to Williams and Vargo. As an example of his functioning, she quoted the man’s explanation for why he’s scared of police: “Because they have guns and hats.”

Judge Meyer also said it was clear the man had a disability. According to evidence presented in court, the man was schizophrenic and off his medicine. He had left his group home, gotten lost for a month, stayed around Williams Park in St. Petersburg and eventually got recruited to appear in the Shefights video for about $50.

“I find it completely incredible that you would not have picked up within the first few seconds … how substantially he was impaired,” Meyer said.

And that, he said, made it a crime. He said if the victim had been a consenting adult, “we wouldn’t even be here today. Because people get to do what they want in this country.”

“I’m not passing judgment on your lifestyle one bit,” he added.

Vargo’s attorney Daniel Hernandez asked for a sentence below state guidelines, saying she had a dual diagnosis of substance abuse problems and mental health issues such as post-traumatic stress disorder and depression.

Meyer would not go below the guidelines but gave her less time than Williams: slightly more than three years in prison, plus three years of probation. During her probation, she must get mental health treatment.

The victim was not in court.

Prosecutors on Monday showed the video, although the judge already had seen it. The victim groaned and grunted as Vargo punched him in the ribs and face. He fell to the ground and she punched him more. She kicked him as well.

The sentencing on Monday follows a trial in December in which Williams and Vargo were convicted of aggravated abuse of a disabled adult, a first-degree felony with a maximum sentence of 30 years in prison. The sentencing completes that case, but it’s not the end for the two. They both face similar charges in a separate, pending case with a different victim.

And of course, there is the case of Donald Trump, who, along with many others, have finally been indicted for their crimes against America. His Presidency did a lot of damage to this country and its people, because of his own bigotries and of those who supported him. And he belongs in prison and certainly not in the White House ever again!

And what about yet another narcissist who has done incredible amounts of damage to others, iilluminaughtii? Like Azal, she constantly represents herself as an activist against corruption and for justice. But she is corrupt herself. Like Azal, she is a planet-sized hypocrite. I am not afraid of Trump, Jeffery Williams, iilluminaughtii, or Wahid Azal. They ALL should be stubbornly opposed by people who know what they have done and can do.

Finally, I googled the name “Paul Andrew Hammond” and found listings that say he died in December 2022. He was also listed as a police detective in San Antonio, Texas. Wahid Azal claimed he was a child pornographer about 14 years ago. How convenient for Azal that he can gloat over defeating this man now that he is dead, eh?  #coward

But I’m still alive and as long as I live, I will hold that monster and his idiot followers accountable for their bullshit. That’s what an ethical person does, period.

A Case of Cognitive Dissonance from a Plotagonist

Take a look at this YouTube video:

It was made by a user known as BizarreFrog. This is his YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/@BizarreFrog

Indeed, most Plotagonists I know are fully supportive of LGBT rights, which is what Pride Month is all about.

And yet the very next video on his channel is THIS:

So he is a Mormon. Does he not know what his religion teaches?

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/official-statement/same-gender-attraction

Feelings of same-sex attraction are not a sin. President M. Russell Ballard said: “Let us be clear: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes that ‘the experience of same-sex attraction is a complex reality for many people. The attraction itself is not a sin, but acting on it is. Even though individuals do not choose to have such attractions, they do choose how to respond to them. With love and understanding, the Church reaches out to all God’s children, including [those with same-sex attraction].’”

______________

So the standard is for gays and lesbians to be celibate, not to engage in any sexual behavior that fits their orientation. To me, that is profoundly insulting. You might as well demand a person starve themself to death.

The Roman Catholic Church has required that all its clergy be celibate. Is it a coincidence that it is also notorious for that same clergy sexually abusing children and trying for so long to cover it up? It seems to me that when you try to suppress for too long natural sexual urges, it eventually comes out in destructive ways. It also breeds hypocrisy like rabbits.

Straight people have the option of marriage, so why not LGBT people? Then they would be equal in the sight of God. Denying LGBT people marriage as an option is by definition treating them as lesser beings. So don’t talk to me about treating them with “kindness, compassion and understanding.” That’s clearly a lie!

And this argument is just insulting to my intelligence:

Mormon

No, what is horrid is misrepresenting your own religion to make it look better than it really is.

There are over 270,000 people in this subreddit who would likely argue that Mormonism IS a cult and Mormons ARE brainwashed, because they were members and left it, so they would know!

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/

Discussions about the matter of LGBT people in Mormonism include:

______________

_______________

______________

___________________

I hope BizarreFrog someday grows up and investigates the truth about his religion, realizing how horrible it is. Not only for being homophobic, but also being racist and sexist too. And basing its teachings on a book that is totally filled with bullshit.

The Book of Mormon is a P.O.S.

And there is the case of Mormon leaders manipulating poor people into destroying themselves financially, which should be consider a CRIME against humanity!

Mormon leaders need to STFU about tithing!

Mormons as PEOPLE shouldn’t be mocked, but MORMONISM should absolutely be condemned as the repressive cult of lies it is!

ciyrlqbtvwu21

What Actually Motivated the Bab and Baha’u’llah?

Christianity is well known for its emphasis on the expectation of the Return of Christ to set up the Kingdom of God on Earth. What’s not so well known is that Shia, a branch of Islam, has similar expectations regarding the Imam Mahdi, also known as the 12th Imam or the Hidden Imam. In reddit, a Muslim said the following:

investigator919

I’ll just say one thing: When Imam Mahdi comes he will establish peace and justice once and for all. He will not change Islam and he will not bring a new religion.

_________________________

But that very assumption means that it is possible that as thousands of years continue to come and go, the Muslim population may gradually come to the conclusion that the expectation of Imam Mahdi to come is unrealistic and that Islam is not a true religion after all.

That seems to be an issue Baha’u’llah, the founder of the Baha’i Faith, was aware of.

https://bahai-library.com/writings/bahaullah/gwb/099.html

The vitality of men’s belief in God is dying out in every land; nothing short of His wholesome medicine can ever restore it. The corrosion of ungodliness is eating into the vitals of human society; what else but the Elixir of His potent Revelation can cleanse and revive it?

Could this loss of belief in God be a direct result of the prophecies of the return of Christ or of Imam Mahdi never coming to pass?

Why the Rapture is a bogus concept

A Critical Analysis of the Epistle of 2 Peter

We can understand that there was an actual time limit for the return of Jesus:

Matthew 16:28 King James Version (KJV)

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

So Jesus should have returned by about 100 AD or so. Maybe AD 150 at the very latest. He didn’t, so:

Deuteronomy 18:22 King James Version (KJV)

 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

But the Quran clearly defines Jesus as a prophet of God. If Jesus failed to return in the time limit he himself gave, then according to Moses, he did not speak for God. If Jesus was false, so was Muhammad. If Muhammad was false, so were the Imams of Shia. So we shouldn’t expect the Imam Mahdi to ever return either. And since Baha’u’llah affirmed both Jesus and Muhammad as Prophets of God, he too is not one himself.

So where does that leave the Bab and Baha’u’llah? Well, the Bab claimed to be the Imam Mahdi, yet he was killed by a firing squad on July 9, 1850, thus failing to fulfil the promises of the Shias. And Baha’u’llah was said to be the return of Christ, but that seems illogical given the time limit Jesus gave. The Muslims, the Babis, and the Baha’is only seem to have credible faiths when you fail to remember that time limit for the return of Christ.

If you are ignorant of what Jesus REALLY taught (and failed to fulfil), you can be a sucker for anything. So to sum up:

  1. Jesus will never return.
  2. The Imam Mahdi will never return
  3. There is no religion after Judaism that is true.
  4. The desperate attempt by Baha’u’llah to stop the spread of atheism was pointless. Atheism is not a bad thing.

And those are my conclusions.

Wahid Azal Goes on Another Childish Rampage

It’s been known for years that both DavidBinOwen and Wahid Azal have been “ban evaders” in reddit, meaning they would create many sockpuppet accounts to try to infiltrate and disrupt the discussions in r/exbahai long after they were banned from it. These have been documented on the following blog entries:

Recently, Wahid has been making many, many, MANY accounts for the purpose of harassment of us.

We first noticed this here:

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist
 
Are you referring to the various Baha’i houses of worship that have been built around the world? They are indeed known to have nine sides to them….a design that is impractical as hell.
 
On a related note, I have yet to see arguments regarding the Bab or his teachings that make him look any more credible or appealing than, say, Adolph Hitler or Charles Manson. I mean, they had followers and became world famous, with scholars researching their supposed mental states and their rises and downfalls, but beyond that, who cares? They’re both dead and their perverted movements should have died with them, obviously. Good riddance.

_____________________________________

SayfAllahQuddusiyah

One day, God willing, we will say this very thing about America and its faux-liberalism which built itself atop slavery, genocide of natives, resource theft, white supremacy, and the death of millions around the world.

The Primal Point and His relevance will outlive the dominance of you arrogant white liberal Anglo-American honkies. Take it to the bank!

____________________

Seeker_Alpha1701

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

Of course, I’m not falling for that crap.

__________________________

SayfAllahQuddusiyah

No redd herring there. A statement of fact. Get your logical fallacies right without recourse to wackopedia.

___________________

The Bab was mentally ill. Almost everything he wrote was strange. Even Baha’i scholars find it incomprehensible.

________________

 
SayfAllahQuddusiyah

Only two types of people make such a statement: 1) Shiite seminarians and/or IR regime apologists and 2) biased individuals with no knowledge of either classical Arabic or 1200 years of Islamic literary developments. If your understanding of the Bab was filtered through warped Baha’i lenses that is no reflection on actual facts. If your understanding of the Bab is filtered through biased Shiite establishmentarian lenses that is no reflection on the facts either. Scholars such as E.G. Browne, A-L-M Nicolas, Arthur Gobinueau, Todd Lawson, Denis MacEoin, Stephan Lambden, etc, were and are all fascinated by him and have spent a considerable period of their lives studying Him and the writings He composed in only a 6 year period. For an Englishman and then a Frenchman to learn classical Arabic and Persian – such as Browne and Nicolas – in order to get access to the Bab’s writings in the original says your observation is ignorant, way off, totally misplaced, and is no reflection on any facts. For a Frenchman like Nicolas to meticulously translate several of the Bab’s major works over a 30-year period, says the Bab’s works have deep appeal – and far more than the mediocrities of Haba’. Those who find Him strange do so because they have not the slightest comprehension of the deep mysticism behind it, or otherwise possess an ideological axe to grind, such as the mullahs and their supporters. Furthermore, if everything He wrote was strange, as you say, thousands wouldn’t have been galvanized to take up arms in His name against the corrupt and parasitic Qajar state, aristocracy and clergy which you regularly like to defend in a typically knee-jerk reactionary, rightwing British kind of way.

As for the charge of mental illness: an Irish doctor in the employ of the British legation found no such evidence. Nevertheless it is a common tactic of slander and defamation normalized specifically by the Anglo-Saxon – who themselves are the greatest psychotic sociopaths and murderers history has ever witnessed – to dismiss a figure such as the Bab or similar with the label as a smokescreen in order not to have to address matters or deal with serious issues.

_________________
The chief mod of this subreddit responded to SucessfulCorner2512:
 

I double this.

_______________________

SayfAllahQuddusiyah

Of course you would. I say the Ayatollah Khomeini was a dangerous clinical sociopath and bloodthirsty psychotic that the Pahlavis should’ve executed when they had the chance. The memories of his lifelong student Ayatollah Montazeri and others confirms it. I also say that Khamenei and his son Mojtaba are likewise dangerous clinical sociopaths and criminal psychotics, and that any Iranian who puts them away is a literal Kaveh, the Blacksmith, of the times. What do you say to that?

________________

I couldnt care less. Regardless, the Bab was mentaly ill.
____________________

And you are a cyber-basiji in the employ of the cyber-army of the IRI. Moreover, you are not an Iranian as your style of written Persian proves (where you are also denounced by other Iranians for being a shill):

https://www.reddit.com/r/iranian/comments/zekepg/shopkeepers_across_iran_take_part_in_mass_walkouts/ize17mn/?context=3

This by you below is also not any formal or idiomatic style of composition in Persian:

دهنتو ببند حرف اضافی نزن

آخر توهمین شماها. نفهم میگم اینجا اینترنت اوکی بوده خودم داشتم با اینترنت کار می کردم آخرش میای فحش ناموس بدی که توهمتو قالب کنی به من.

You are obviously either a Pakistani or Indian, and no Iranian.

كثافت سگ بسيجى

__________________

Using Google Translate, the Persian passages read in English:

Shut your mouth, don’t talk too much.

The end of your illusions. I don’t understand, the internet is ok here. I was working with the internet myself. Finally, you come to insult me and cast your illusion on me.

Basiji dog litter

Looks like real Persian words to me. Also, what would be the point of anyone NOT an Iranian serving the intelligence agencies of Iran by moderating a subreddit against the Baha’i Faith and defending Iran all over the place? Instead of, you know, serving his own country?

Also, I have lived in Texas all my life, but I have never spoken with a “Texan” accent (which is actually a myth, BTW). Azal’s claim against investigator919 is like someone saying I have no right to be called a Texan because I don’t speak a certain way. Since Azal lives in Australia and not Iran, his claim is just bullshit. He doesn’t know any more about how present day Iranians use Persian than I do.

Burying the believer in a crystal coffin is interesting. I’m not sure how one would acquire the funds to do that unless the person was already wealthy to begin with. I think there is another one that says a non-Babi spouse is to have all of their possessions stolen by their Babi partner if they don’t convert to the religion.

I think a lot of the Babi Laws were meant to be symbolic to some degree. Given that we are so used to the Baha’i organization doing everything it can to distance itself from its Islamic roots, it is easy to forget that the Babi religion was founded during a time of “spiritual mania”. I think the Bab felt like he had to sound “tough” to stand up to people who would try to bully and persecute his followers, but that’s just my speculation.

____________________

SayfAllahQuddusiyah

No such law in the Bayan. You have confused Haba’s law in the aqdas that non-Baha’i family do not inherit with another law in the Bayan. The Bayan instead says that non-believers are to be disenfranchised of their property under a Bayani state/kingdom unless they convert because only believers in the Bayan are to reside in a Bayani state/kingdom (which is only inclusive of the five provinces constituting Iran and Iraq). At the same time it makes it a sin to dispossess any individual of their home or place of residence and prohibits forced conversions to the Bayan.

And, no, none of these laws were meant to be symbolic. Symbolic of what, exactly?

______________

So I went after him:

 

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

I think he is lying to you, not correcting.

In 2017, I did a critical analysis of the Kitab-i-Aqdas from start to finish. The part dealing with inheritance was explored here:

https://dalehusband.com/2017/08/28/a-critical-analysis-of-the-kitab-i-aqdas-part-two/

Here is everything the Aqdas says about inheritance:

We have divided inheritance into seven categories: to the children, We have allotted nine parts comprising five hundred and forty shares; to the wife, eight parts comprising four hundred and eighty shares; to the father, seven parts comprising four hundred and twenty shares; to the mother, six parts comprising three hundred and sixty shares; to the brothers, five parts or three hundred shares; to the sisters, four parts or two hundred and forty shares; and to the teachers, three parts or one hundred and eighty shares. Such was the ordinance of My Forerunner, He Who extolleth My Name in the night season and at the break of day. When We heard the clamor of the children as yet unborn, We doubled their share and decreased those of the rest. He, of a truth, hath power to ordain whatsoever He desireth, and He doeth as He pleaseth by virtue of His sovereign might.

Should the deceased leave no offspring, their share shall revert to the House of Justice, to be expended by the Trustees of the All-Merciful on the orphaned and widowed, and on whatsoever will bring benefit to the generality of the people, that all may give thanks unto their Lord, the All-Gracious, the Pardoner.

Should the deceased leave offspring, but none of the other categories of heirs that have been specified in the Book, they shall receive two-thirds of the inheritance and the remaining third shall revert to the House of Justice. Such is the command which hath been given, in majesty and glory, by Him Who is the All-Possessing, the Most High.

If the deceased should leave none of the specified heirs, but have among his relatives nephews and nieces, whether on his brother’s or his sister’s side, two-thirds of the inheritance shall pass to them; or, lacking these, to his uncles and aunts on both his father’s and his mother’s side, and after them to their sons and daughters. The remaining third of the inheritance shall, in any case, revert to the Seat of Justice. Thus hath it been laid down in the Book by Him Who ruleth over all men.

Should the deceased be survived by none of those whose names have been recorded by the Pen of the Most High, his estate shall, in its entirety, revert to the aforementioned Seat that it may be expended on that which is prescribed by God. He, verily, is the Ordainer, the Omnipotent.

We have assigned the residence and personal clothing of the deceased to the male, not female, offspring, nor to the other heirs. He, verily, is the Munificent, the All-Bountiful.

Should the son of the deceased have passed away in the days of his father and have left children, they will inherit their father’s share, as prescribed in the Book of God. Divide ye their share amongst them with perfect justice. Thus have the billows of the Ocean of Utterance surged, casting forth the pearls of the laws decreed by the Lord of all mankind.

If the deceased should leave children who are under age, their share of the inheritance must be entrusted to a reliable individual, or to a company, that it may be invested on their behalf in trade and business until they come of age. The trustee should be assigned a due share of the profit that hath accrued to it from being thus employed.

Division of the estate should take place only after the Ḥuqúqu’lláh hath been paid, any debts have been settled, the expenses of the funeral and burial defrayed, and such provision made that the deceased may be carried to his resting-place with dignity and honor. Thus hath it been ordained by Him Who is Lord of the beginning and the end.

There is a lot to criticize, but the specific reference to “that non-Baha’i family do not inherit” is not one of them…..indeed, I found no such distinction anywhere in the Aqdas, or I would have commented on it somewhere in my blog entry series on the subject. Here is the entire list:

https://dalehusband.com/bahai-writings-criticism/

Meanwhile we have this from the con artist above.

No such law in the Bayan……..The Bayan instead says that non-believers are to be disenfranchised of their property under a Bayani state/kingdom unless they convert because only believers in the Bayan are to reside in a Bayani state/kingdom (which is only inclusive of the five provinces constituting Iran and Iraq).

Which is a distinction without a difference. Much like saying the Bayan does not command the destruction of books but does call for them to be erased. Really?

So this dingbat opposes the tyranny of the Islamic Republic of Iran and even the corrupt democracy of the USA, but thinks a Bayani republic that denies non-Babis the right to own property and censors non-Babi books is acceptable?!

____________________

Later:

agnostic exBaha’i
 
That Babi’s were forbidden to ask questions, his edicts to burn all non-religious books, that believers should give him priceless gifts…
 
These are things that are common knowledge among Baha’is as well as exBaha’is. But just as moon landing denialists can’t stand the idea that we actually sent men to the moon for some reason, Wahid Azal can’t stand the obvious point that the Bab was a lunatic……..because he himself is one too!
 

SayfAllahQuddusiyah

No such law, and given the massive amount of literary output by the Bab in only a 6 short year period, this decisively proves that He never forbade questions. What He specifically forbade was asking “why” (lima) and “wherefore” (bima) of He whom God shall make Manifest when He appears, i.e. interrogating Him, and this ordinance exists due to the bitter personal experience of the Bab when He arrived in Bushire from the hajj and subsequently when under custody because the subtext of this ordinance is not to treat He whom God shall make Manifest the way the Shi’ite mullahs and their supporters treated Him. Contrary to the mullahs who regularly practiced book burning (as they still do), especially of the writings of their rivals and critics, there is no law in the Bayan to burn non-religious books or books or any written material of any kind. In fact the very opposite. The effacement or destruction of any written material is explicitly forbidden in the Bayan per gate 13 of the 9th Unity:

أنتم أبدا كتابا لا تخرقون

You are not to destroy any book [or any piece of writing, since in Arabic kitab/book in the accusative and indefinite case can refer to a book or any other piece of written material] under any circumstance!”

https://bayanic.com/lib/fwd/ABayan/ABayan-FWD.html

The claim originates with Haba’ and his son which has been uncritically repeated by the Shiite mullahs and their supporters (like u/Investigator919), and now clueless and confused secular Anglo-European ex-Bahais as well. So either no such law exists in the Bayan and the Baha’i founder and his son lied – as the textual evidence explicitly proves – or there is confusion about two different laws. In the 6th gate of the 6th Unity of the Bayan, the Bab says to efface all previous scriptures; meaning, to cease allowing the scriptural books of previous dispensations to act in any form as a centerpiece in a subsequent dispensation, which He explicitly glosses as such in the Persian Bayan. However, this has nothing to do with the physical destruction of any book or scriptural text, not to mention it explicitly echoes a verse of the Qur’an (13:39):

يَمْحُو اللَّهُ مَا يَشَاءُ وَيُثْبِتُ ۖ وَعِندَهُ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ

God effaces what He/It wills and establishes/confirms [what He/It wills]! And with It/Him is the Mother of the Book!

As well as the second theophanic sequence of the hadith kumayl (which acts as a proof-text to everything the Bab contextualizes):

محو الموهوم و صحو المعلوم

The effacement of supposition/conjecture and the realization of the Known!

As matter of fact, even though Abbas Effendi propagated this slur of Babi book burning, it was in fact Baha’is who went out of their way around the world to destroy and/or efface copies of the Leiden edition of nuqtat’ul-kaf by E.G. Browne when it was published. Abbas Effendi even ordered the Baha’is to do so. In fact, I know of Baha’is in the past 30 years who went around public libraries throughout the United States and effaced or stole from shelves and then destroyed copies of William M. Miller’s The Baha’i Faith: Its History and Teachings. So the destruction of books is in fact a practice literally engaged in by Baha’is themselves.

As for giving priceless gifts to the Point: again, this ordinance relates to He whom God shall make Manifest, and what exactly the problem is with this ordinance, is anyone’s guess.

What a ridiculous load of mental gymnastics!

First:

given the massive amount of literary output by the Bab in only a 6 short year period, this decisively proves that He never forbade questions.

That’s actually a non sequitur. Someone could write a dozen novels and yet never respond to a single letter written to him by a fan of his writing.

The claim originates with [Baha’u’llah] and his son which has been uncritically repeated by the Shiite mullahs and their supporters (like u/Investigator919), and now clueless and confused secular Anglo-European ex-Bahais as well. So either no such law exists in the Bayan and the Baha’i founder and his son lied – as the textual evidence explicitly proves – or there is confusion about two different laws.

This is also nonsense. I would later show exactly why.

The idea that Baha’u’llah so blatantly lied about the Bayan to justify abrogating it doesn’t hold up for one simple reason: In Baha’u’llah’s time, nearly all the Baha’is were former Bayanis and thus they would have had access to the Bayan to see if there were such laws for Baha’u’llah to abrogate. There would have been no need for Baha’u’llah to abrogate anything from the Bayan if those laws were anything reasonable like that claimed above. Baha’u’llah was engaging in one form of “damage control”, while the lying commenter was doing another form, but both should be rejected.

It’s a bit like a neo-Nazi claiming today, “Hitler never wanted to exterminate the Jews; he just wanted them out of Europe.” So what the fuck were all those concentration camps for?!

__________________

 
Neither Gomer, Interrogator919 and their alter ego SuccessfulCorner2512 or MirzaIRI_Jan appear to read classical Arabic (or French, for that matter) and so rely on either garbled English translations by Peter Terry (from Nicolas’ original French) or material put out by IRI outfits or material by MacEoin and others, but deliberately taken out of context. However, I have offered links to the text of the Arabic Bayan itself:
  1. The autograph in the hand of the Bab Himself: https://www.academia.edu/36798591/Codex_Arabic_Bay%C4%81n_pdf

  2. The Azali lithograph edition from the autograph (whose editor’s preamble was translated by me from Persian to English for Bayanic.com): https://bayanic.com/lib/fwd/ABayan/ABayan-FWD.html

  3. The INBA 43 text (a Baha’i publication): https://www.h-net.org/~bahai/diglib/INBA/INBA043.pdf

  4. Muslim anti-Babi polemicist `Abd al-Razzaq al-Hasani’s typescript edition: https://www.h-net.org/~bahai/areprint/bab/A-F/b/bayana/bayana.htm

Those who assert must prove! So Gomer and his IRI handlers must prove on the prima facie evidence of the text of the Arabic Bayan itself that 1) the Bayan commands book burning, 2) that the Bayan commands building 9-sided houses, 3) that the Bayan disallows the asking of questions and 4) that the Bayan commands that priceless gifts be given to the Bab. I have already proven 1) to be a lie since the 13the gate of the 9th Unity clearly states:

أنتم أبدا كتابا لا تخرقون

You are not to destroy anybookwhatsoever/under any circumstance!”

https://bayanic.com/lib/fwd/ABayan/ABayan-FWD.html

* Or any piece of writing, since in Arabic kitab/book in the accusative and indefinite case can refer to a book or any other piece of written material.

Gomer and his IR handlers have skirted around this question for 4 straight years without ever offering a single piece of credible evidence or rebuttal. Instead, like the professional propagandists and gaslighting censors that they are, they have dug in their heels every time and continued to repeat themselves with the same inane talking points as before over and over again.

Finally, I will go on record and say that the clear evidence proves Interrogator919 to be a dyed in the wool and classic Shi’ite Muslim fundamentalist anti-Babi BIGOT and his sock-puppet Gomer a textbook SOCIOPATH for actually following this person. I have proven my case and the facts speak for themselves. Gomer has once again proven himself as a know-nothing and arrogant Pyle-of-Merde!

______________________

But I wasn’t going to let that con artist off the hook! Looking through all those links, I expected to find an English version of the Bayan from a reputable scholar that would confirm Azal’s claims.  Instead, I only found Arabic copies of pages of the Bayan with no translations and therefore NO way for a skeptic like me to verify anything Azal was saying. I knew then that I was merely being set up for more verbal abuse.

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist
And…..every link in that comment above leads to NOTHING that supports your claims…..and yes, I clicked on all four of them. So you fail yet again to prove anything.
 
Again, if it is true that Baha’u’llah so blatantly misrepresented the Bayan in the Kitab-i-Aqdas, then he should have lost nearly all his followers after the latter book came out. Imagine if Jesus said, “my followers need no longer obey the Torah’s commandment to circumcise newborn boys.” Would it have been reasonable for a Jew to say, “There is no such law in the Torah, Moses has been misquoted”? Jesus himself would simply crack open the Torah, point to the actual references in question, and thus prove the Jew a liar. The only way your claims make sense is if the Bayanis and Baha’is in Baha’u’llah’s time did not have any copies of the Bayan to confirm what Baha’u’llah taught. If they didn’t, why the hell did the Bab write it for, if not for his followers to read and obey?
 
Ironically, it is exactly because most of us here don’t know Arabic that you thought you could fool us with your lies. You really need to give up this useless game…..you simply can’t win because reality doesn’t agree with you.
_______________________
Later….
 
Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist
Why would Baha’u’llah abrogate laws of the Bayan that never existed? Why didn’t Sub-i-Azal take advantage of the situation to completely discredit his brother and prove once and for all that he was right? You can’t answer that, can you?
 
I don’t tolerate it when Baha’i “historians” like Adib Taherzadeh publish made up shit that they insist is true, so why should YOU be given a free pass?
_________________
He tried to evade that argument, so I kept after him.
 
 

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

You keep forgetting that I am an atheist with no loyalty to Iran. I, MirzaJan and investigator919 all oppose the Baha’i Faith, so we are partners in that. And we thought you were one too. Instead, you betrayed us with lies and backstabbing.

But we also know that it all started with the Bab and IT SHOULD HAVE ENDED WITH HIM in 1850. It was Baha’u’llah who revived the Babi community and then replaced the Bab’s teachings with his own. He never would have been able to do that if the former Bayanis rejected him for lying about the Bayan and turned instead to Sub-i-Azal. You know this. The surest way to discredit the Baha’i Faith is to strike at its very root. Which is the Bab, since Baha’u’llah was once his follower.

The Bab claimed to be the return of the Mahdi. TRUE OR FALSE?

The Shias expected the Mahdi to overthrow the enemies of Islam. TRUE OR FALSE?

The Bab was gunned down in 1850 after his followers were defeated in battle. TRUE OR FALSE?

If I am to EVER believe in the Bab and the Bayani teachings, then at least ONE of those premises must be established as FALSE. SO WHICH IS IT?

___________________
  1. Indeed, the Primal Point declared Himself the Qaim and Mahdi.

  2. What the Shias expected is not necessarily what the prophecies say or what they even mean, especially in light of the central Shiite doctrine of al-bada’ (the alteration of the divine plans) which is also a core doctrine of the Bayan itself.

  3. The Primal Point was indeed martyred and the early believers of the Bayan massacred by the combined state-clergy pogrom unleashed against them. But those who survived went on to actively work against the Qajar dynasty which they overthrew in the early 20th century. The destruction of the power of the Shiite clergy is still a work in progress and is now starting to bear fruit, and we will succeed in permanently cutting the power of those tyre-heads and their allies to size for good! When we do, the Babi Revolution will be complete.

____________________________

Why would Baha’u’llah abrogate laws of the Bayan that never existed?

Simple, because he was anti-Bayani all along as the evidence of Avarih in the first volume of his Kashfúl-Hil unequivocally proved: Haba’ denounced the Bab at his interrogation in the presence Mirza Agha Khan Nuri (a distant kinsman and the prime minister of Iran at the time) after the failed assassination on Nasiruddin Shah in the summer of 1852 (Avarih quotes directly from government archives of the interrogation). Second, because at the time the complete Bayani corpus was few and far between and in the hands of a very few people (because if these texts were ever found by authorities, they would be destroyed and the person in whose possession they were, killed), even well into the 1890s. So Haba’ took advantage of this situation and said whatever he wanted to say about the Bayan – and did! Why do you think E.G. Browne amassed so many Babi texts and catalogued them with Cambridge University? Because otherwise this history would have probably been lost given that both fundamentalist Shi’ites and Baha’is went out of their way to try to destroy it.

Why didn’t Sub-i-Azal take advantage of the situation to completely discredit his brother and prove once and for all that he was right?

He did! In tome after tome after tome of text – and he wasn’t the only one. Your problem is that you cannot access any of this material and have such a partial grasp of the historiography and texts that it is not even worth anyone’s time to teach you anything, nor have you demonstrated any interest in learning anything since your logic appears to be based on confirmation bias. In that respect, atheist or not, you are exactly like the Baha’is or fundamentalist Shi’ites.

_________________

I was getting close to nailing that fraud, so I kept up the pressure.

 

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

[[[Haba’ denounced the Bab at his interrogation in the presence Mirza Agha Khan Nuri (a distant kinsman and the prime minister of Iran at the time) after the failed assassination on Nasiruddin Shah]]]

Aren’t Shias allowed to deny their own beliefs in public to avoid persecution? Appearantly that’s what Baha’u’llah did. Too bad it didn’t help him.

[[[In tome after tome after tome of text – and he wasn’t the only one.]]]

Then Sub-i-Azal should have won and there should be NO Baha’i Faith today. The Bayani Faith should be the world religion instead. He failed and therefore so must you!

___________________

Aren’t Shias allowed to deny their own beliefs in public to avoid persecution? Appearantly that’s what Baha’u’llah did. Too bad it didn’t help him.
Whatever. But the fact that he denounced the Point of the Bayan makes his entire claim disingenuous with him revealed as a complete asshole!
 
Then Sub-i-Azal should have won and there should be NO Baha’i Faith today.
Is this how you believe the world works? You aren’t really that naive as 50+ year old, are you? That the righteous prevail?! You got Donald Trump as president in 2016 – and may yet get him again in 2024 – in an election he actually lost in the popular vote (on top of Russian meddling). You got George W. Bush as president in an election in 2000 which he also lost to Al Gore. History is riddled with bad guys winning and prevailing over the good, and especially in the realm of religion and religious movements, like the example of Jesus himself or Imam Husayn (as) whom your handler claims to believe in.
____________________

Seeker_Alpha1701

[[[ My agenda is simply to set the record straight and take the Bayan out of the hands of bahais who have held it hostage and the misrepresentations of fundamentalist anti-Babi Shiites who have uncritically repeated canards originated by bahais.]]]

That’s nonsense! If the Shias have access to the Bayan, they don’t need any input from Baha’is, do they?

[[[1. Indeed, the Primal Point declared Himself the Qaim and Mahdi. 2. What the Shias expected is not necessarily what the prophecies say or what they even mean, especially in light of the central Shiite doctrine of al-bada’ (the alteration of the divine plans) which is also a core doctrine of the Bayan itself.]]]

Bada was also the same bullshit argument the Hands of the Cause of God used to justify the Baha’i community continuing without a Guardian after Shoghi Effendi died. So why aren’t you a Haifan Baha’i?

[[[3. The Primal Point was indeed martyred and the early believers of the Bayan massacred by the combined state-clergy pogrom unleashed against them. But those who survived went on to actively work against the Qajar dynasty which they overthrew in the early 20th century. The destruction of the power of the Shiite clergy is still a work in progress and is now starting to bear fruit, and we will succeed in permanently cutting the power of those tyre-heads and their allies to size for good! When we do, the Babi Revolution will be complete.]]]

You mean the SECULAR revolution. How can a Babi revolution happen in Iran when it’s just you representing the Babi cause?

_____________________

That’s nonsense! If the Shias have access to the Bayan, they don’t need any input from Baha’is, do they?

Then why do they keep repeating Baha’i arguments and citing Baha’i texts, and never the Bayan itself?

Bada was also the same bullshit argument the Hands of the Cause of God used to justify the Baha’i community continuing without a Guardian after Shoghi Effendi died. So why aren’t you a Haifan Baha’i?

Stupid argument. Again, al-Bada is a core Shi’ite doctrine and is confirmed in the Bayan. WTF does this have to do with being or not being a Haifan Bahai just because a bunch of self-appointed CEOs cited it in 1957? Lame.

You mean the SECULAR revolution. How can a Babi revolution happen in Iran when it’s just you representing the Babi cause?

No, I mean the Babi Revolution, since anti-clericalism in Iran began with us. What outer form it solidifies as when it fructifies is secondary. We began the whole thing. The end of the mullahs will be our ship finally brought to port. QED

Right……but what if the secular republic that replaces the Islamic state legalizes the Baha’i Faith? Azal would go ballistic over that! LOL!

_________________

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist
 
[[[Then why do they keep repeating Baha’i arguments and citing Baha’i texts, and never the Bayan itself?]]]
 

investigator919

Since most if not all the readers of this sub do not understand Arabic or Persian, without delving into the semantics, it suffices to say both translations literally agree on one thing: were the Bab come to power books and writings would only be limited to what the Bab said or approved. Good luck promoting these beliefs.

“Chapter six of the sixth unit which is about destroying all books but those that have been written or will be written about this Order (meaning the Bab’s creed). (The Bāb, Farsi Bayān, unit 6, chap. 6.)”

The sixth gate of the Sixth Unity. Regarding the ordinance [ḥukm] of the erasure [maḥw] of all books, all of them, except what has emerged or will arise in this Cause.

[[[Stupid argument. Again, al-Bada is a core Shi’ite doctrine and is confirmed in the Bayan. WTF does this have to do with being or not being a Haifan Bahai just because a bunch of self-appointed CEOs cited it in 1957? Lame.]]]

It just illustrates your inconsistency…….You accept Bada when it suits you and reject it when it doesn’t. I deny Bada in ALL its versions. If there are ANY contradictions in the teachings of a religion, IT IS NOT TRUE!

And then came the final and ultimate discrediting of that idiot:

Seeker_Alpha1701

[[What would have resolved the debate in his favor would be an English translation of the Bayan made by a scholar such as Edward Granville Browne that states exactly what Azal claims.]]

I assumed there WERE such translations already, so why did you not present one of them instead? You didn’t, so I concluded you were just playing mind games all along. Because you did that to us before, of course.

___________________

 
 
Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist
 
So first the con artist says:
 
[[[One day, God willing, we will say this very thing about America and its faux-liberalism which built itself atop slavery, genocide of natives, resource theft, white supremacy, and the death of millions around the world.
 
The Primal Point and His relevance will outlive the dominance of you arrogant white liberal Anglo-American honkies. Take it to the bank!]]]
 
And then:
 
[[[The destruction of the power of the Shiite clergy is still a work in progress and is now starting to bear fruit, and we will succeed in permanently cutting the power of those tyre-heads and their allies to size for good! When we do, the Babi Revolution will be complete.]]]
 
But later:
 
[[[Is this how you believe the world works? You aren’t really that naive as 50+ year old, are you? That the righteous prevail?! You got Donald Trump as president in 2016 – and may yet get him again in 2024 – in an election he actually lost in the popular vote (on top of Russian meddling). You got George W. Bush as president in an election in 2000 which he also lost to Al Gore. History is riddled with bad guys winning and prevailing over the good, and especially in the realm of religion and religious movements, like the example of Jesus himself or Imam Husayn (as) whom your handler claims to believe in.]]]
 
You keep changing rhetorical tactics to keep propping up your bullshit long after you should have given up!
 
Indeed, this is EXACTLY the sort of mental gymnastics I have always hated seeing from Baha’i’s like DBO, Christian apologists, and others in religion and politics that are such GODDAMN HYPOCRITES IN PUBLIC, because their inconsistent religious or political dogmatism enables the behavior they want to get away with. And the whole point of debating with Wacki Azoo for so long was to expose him for what he is, no better than all those other assholes in this messed up world!

LOL!!!!!

Baha’i Elections are a Total Sham

First, read this blog entry:

The Universal House of the International Teaching Center of Justice

And here is a report on how elections work at the national level.

https://news.bahai.org/story/1675/

National Bahá’í Conventions: A unique electoral process

June 7, 2023

BAHÁ’Í WORLD CENTRE — The past weeks have seen Bahá’í communities around the globe elect their national governing councils—known as National Spiritual Assemblies. The series of annual conventions will conclude with Guam, where Typhoon Mawar has caused some delay.

National conventions bring together delegates who have earlier been elected in district or “unit” conventions across the country. National conventions provide an opportunity for delegates, from each unit, to carry out their sacred responsibility of voting for the members of the National Assembly in a joyful and spiritual atmosphere.

The election of the National Assembly follows the basic Bahá’í electoral procedures: there is no nomination or campaigning, secret ballots are used, electors consider moral character and capability, and those women and men who receive the most votes are elected.

There are also consultations among the delegates, who explore insights from Bahá’í endeavors toward social transformation at the local, regional, and national level. These endeavors involve educational programs that build capacity for community-building, as well as social action, and participation in societal discourses.

______________

Also, watch these videos:

Because there are not nominations or campaigning, it is impossible for others to openly challenge the leadership and demand change. Incumbents are virtually guaranteed to win. And that means the leadership can pretty much do whatever the hell they want, regardless of the actual needs of the people.

A perfect example is this:

The Desperation of the Baha’is as the 100th Anniversary of the Death of Abdu’l-Baha Approaches

Who the fuk asked for this?!

And they paid for their hubris too!

Abdu’l-Baha’s Shrine Burns to the Ground

Then there was this incident in Italy:

Whitewashing corruption among Italian Baha’is

 

Note this also:

National conventions bring together delegates who have earlier been elected in district or “unit” conventions across the country.

Is that how ALL national Baha’i elections are run? Especially large Baha’i communities might have to elect delegates from districts, but for tiny Baha’i communities on islands or other small nations or divisions within nations, they could just have members of Local Spiritual Assemblies or even the entire community membership do the electing. The results would likely be the same.

If you look at the events being depicted, it looks like they are joyful, profoundly spiritual matters. But a process that enables corruption and chokes off debate and real chances for change is hardly worth doing.

 

Pat Robertson is Dead….but he Lived to age 93, Dammit!

I think Rebecca Watson said it best, so I will allow her to speak for me here:

Reactions on reddit are as follows:

 

 

 

I hope his influence dies with him!

Will the Unitarian Universalist Association Split Completely?

I just bought a book titled “A Gadfly Report”, written by retired UU minister Dennis McCarty, who has written many other books in the past. It is a critical analysis of the “Gadflies”, the infamous faction among UUs who reject the efforts to eliminate White Supremacy Culture among UUs.

20230515_143606

The book is being sold here:

And here is McCarty’s own account in Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/dennis.mccarty.90

At one point, McCarty mentions that Todd Eklof has founded a new group, called the North American Unitarian Association. So I looked it up.

https://naunitarians.org/

And found this list:

https://naunitarians.org/about/

Current Board: The founding NAUA members have elected a provisional Board of Directors. A new Board will be elected at the first Annual General Meeting.

  • President: Rev.  Dr. Todd Eklof, Spokane WA.
  • Vice President: TBD
  • Treasurer: Lynn Jinishian, Spokane WA.
  • Secretary: Frank Casper, Atlanta GA
  • Directors at Large:
    • Ron Strange, Port Townsend WA
    • Terry Anderson, PhD, Edmonton AB
    • Candace Schmidt, Spokane WA
    • Richard Gammon, Spokane WA
    • Robert Jinishian, Spokane, WA
    • Mike Long, Charlotte, NC

Note the large number of leading members from Spokane, WA, which is Todd Eklof’s base of operations. Clearly, this is little more than a fan club of his. Including Frank Casper, who I have seen in Facebook. After seeing how arrogant he is, I blocked him in disgust.

Because of the decentralized and libertarian nature of the UUA, these people cannot be excommunicated from the Unitarian Universalist movement, but it is clear they want to create an outright split among UUs. After all, Todd Eklof himself said so, even titling a chapter in one of his books “I WANT A DIVORCE”.

I have written about this matter before:

Reopening Old Wounds Among Unitarian Universalists

A Debate in the UU Subreddit Over the 2017 Hiring Controversy

Another Fight in Reddit Over Rev. Todd Eklof’s Publicity Stunt of 2019

Another call for Unitarian Universalists to stop fighting for consistent racial justice

Reading and Reacting to “The Gadfly Molehill”

Too many people seem to have become UUs, ironically, out of an elitist desire to reject and scorn religious fundamentalism, not a desire to improve themselves and their society for the good of all. But religious fundamentalism is itself a form of bigotry. Why abandon one form while clinging to others?

McCarty’s new book should put the final nail in the coffin of Todd Eklof’s credibility. He is a TRAITOR and should be rejected by all those loyal to the principles of Unitarian Universalism. He came from the Southern Baptist Convention…..and in my mind, he still belongs there, not among UUs!

From “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” to [[I Kissed Christianity Goodbye]]

Read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Kissed_Dating_Goodbye

I Kissed Dating Goodbye is a 1997 book by Joshua Harris. The book focuses on Harris’ disenchantment with the contemporary secular dating scene, and offers ideas for improvement, alternative dating/courting practices, and a view that singleness need not be a burden nor characterized by what Harris describes as “selfishness”.

By the late 2010s, Harris reconsidered his view that dating should be avoided, apologizing to those whose lives were negatively impacted by the book and directing the book’s publisher to discontinue its publication.[1][2]

In I Kissed Dating Goodbye, Harris popularized the concept of “courting” as an alternative to mainstream dating. In so doing, he raised discussion regarding the appropriateness of his proposed solutions, as well as the foundations on which he based his reasoning.

According to Harris, people in dating relationships put up a façade in an attempt to appear to be what the other person wants, thus hampering the “getting to know you” part of dating. Harris said that it is more appropriate and healthier in the long run to participate in “group dates” in order to truly understand the way a particular person interacts with others; in a group setting, a person is less likely to be able to maintain a façade. Harris proposed a system of courtship that involved the parents of both parties to a greater degree than is usual in conventional dating. In an interview with Family Christian Stores, Harris indicated that “people have taken the message of I Kissed Dating Goodbye and made it something legalistic – a set of rules. That’s something that’s beyond my control, and it’s disappointing at times…”[3]

The book has been cited as an example of belief in ‘benevolent sexism’ and ‘women as property’[5] as well as promoting ‘rape supportive messaging’[6] and ‘sexual purity teachings’ that emphasize a ‘hierarchical father-daughter relationship’ and reduces the agency of adolescent girls.[7]

Christian psychologists Henry Cloud and John Townsend suggest that avoiding dating in order to avoid suffering, as Harris advises, causes those who do so to forgo opportunities to mature, especially through learning how to create healthy boundaries.[12]

In 2016, Harris appeared to be reconsidering the claims that he had made in the book and apologized to several who publicly communicated how the book had influenced them to stay single or had been used by adults to impose stringent rules on them.[13][14]

During a 2017 TED talk, Harris said his greatest regret about the book was him transferring his fears into the book. He said: “Fear is never a good motive. Fear of messing up, fear of getting your heart broken, fear of hurting somebody else, fear of sex… There are clear things in statements in Scripture about our sexuality being expressed within the covenant of marriage. But that doesn’t mean that dating is somehow wrong or a certain way of dating is the only way to do things. I think that’s where people get into danger. We have God’s word, but then it’s so easy to add all this other stuff to protect people, to control people, to make sure that you don’t get anywhere near that place where you could go off course. And I think that’s where the problems arise.”[15]

And also….

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Harris_(author)

In 1997, Harris moved from Oregon to Gaithersburg, Maryland to be a pastoral intern.[10][11] There, “C. J. Mahaney, a charismatic Calvinist and founding pastor of megachurch Covenant Life Church, took Harris under his wing and groomed him to take over the church.”[12] Harris was lead pastor of Covenant Life Church from 2004 until 2015.[13][6] Harris assumed the role of senior pastor at Covenant Life Church at the age of 30.[10] In January 2015, he resigned from that role due to a desire to broaden his views and connect to other parts of Christianity. In an interview, Harris said the isolation of Covenant Life, and of a small cluster of churches of which it was a part, may have fed leadership mistakes, including the decision of pastors — himself among them — to handle a child sexual abuse case internally instead of going to police.[6]

In 2016, Harris stated that he was reconsidering the content of I Kissed Dating Goodbye[15] and apologized to people who said that they had been hurt by its teachings.[16][15] In 2018, Harris disavowed I Kissed Dating Goodbye and discontinued its publication.[17] His publishers agreed that I Kissed Dating Goodbye and two other follow-up books would not be reprinted once the current stock was depleted.[18][19] Harris appeared in a documentary film called I Survived I Kissed Dating Goodbye, where he spoke to people who were critical of the book.[20][21]

In July 2019, Harris announced that he and his wife were separating due to “significant changes [that] have taken place in both of us”.[22][23] Subsequently, Harris revealed that he no longer considered himself a Christian and his wife began pursuing a career as a singer-songwriter under the name Shannon Bonne.[24][25][26] In addition to his previously discontinued books, with Harris’s announcement of his loss of faith, the documentary film lost its distributor due to the negative reaction from the Christian market.[27]

My guess is that his extremist views on sexuality, often called “purity culture” were so tied up with his Christian views that when he realized purity culture was bullshit, it also caused his faith to be destroyed as well. That’s what often happens to people with extreme religious views of any kind that don’t measure up to reality at all.

To illustrate the stupidity of purity culture, which is by nature sexist and unrealistic in its expectations of young people, I made this:

And I am confident that it will stand up to reality far better than Harris’ stupid book……or even his former religion!

A discussion about the Baha’i Faith in r/exchristian

As both an ex-Christian and an ex-Baha’i, I have been active in subreddits that reflect my background and interests.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exchristian/

https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/

Here’s a discussion in one subreddit I took part in:

 
Humanist, UU, Ex-Baptist & Ex-Baha’i
 
The ONLY reason I was ever homophobic was because of my being raised Baptist and later being a Baha’i. Once I stopped believing in the idea of infallible God-centered religions, I dropped my bigotry against LGBT people. I accepted that the founders and writers of most great religions knew nothing about sexual matters.
_________________________
 
Oh how interesting! May I ask what enticed you to become Baha’i?
_____________
So here I was making a casual reference to one of my past religions and apparently this other person had never heard of it, so I had to explain to them what it was about.
 
 
Humanist, UU, Ex-Baptist & Ex-Baha’i
My assumption that if there was a God, then logically I needed to find the most recent religion founded in his name instead of following an older one. One should know the will of God for this age, right? 
Once I realized that the Baha’i Faith was no better than Christianity, I gave up on belief in God completely. I am atheist now.

____________________

 
That’s so interesting to me because I often hear the opposite claim. That we should go to the oldest religion as its the most true. I’ve met Christians who legitimately believed Christianity was the first religion. Then there’s Islam that claims all the prophets of other religions were actually Muslims whose words got corrupted over time + we are all born Muslims. I’ve never seen someone contemplate the opposite before.
_________________
I thought, “In what universe does that make even a little bit of sense???”
 
Humanist, UU, Ex-Baptist & Ex-Baha’i
False dogmas and mistaken assumptions are common among older faiths. That’s how they sell themselves.
Following an older religion is like trying to work as a mechanic on a 2015 Ford car using a guide of a 1956 Ford car.

For the record, I drive a 2015 Ford Fiesta. And I do believe that as humans evolve, so should their religions. 

Wahid Azal Repeats his Lies and Makes More Excuses

About three years ago, I blocked in disgust Wahid Azal’s main account on reddit after discovering what a totally despicable liar and traitor he was against r/exbahai.

And in a recent post, he doubles down on his bullshit, thus showing he has absolutely NO sense of ethics whatsoever. To put it bluntly, he is indeed EVIL. Recently, he blocked me in return, no doubt to stop me from seeing more of his lies, but I learned to get around that barrier to see what he’s been doing.

He said the following:

wahidazal66

Like all other bahai lists online, exbahai is an echo chamber with an agenda tasked with gatekeeping and stymieing real opposition. There you have outright cyberbasijis rubbing shoulders with the BIA, like that recent arrival who was exposed here who is so transparent about what they are it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out. But whenever they and their transparently gratuitous talking points are pushed back against, this is what they always do: block. Yet note that over the past 4 years traffic to that subreddit has seriously come to a halt and it isn’t what it used to be. People are wisening up to the fact that not all is what it seems with exbahai. But when you appoint an imbecile, child groomer-pedo and head case like Gomer as a moderator, that is what you should expect. Also after u/investigator919 said what they said about the Woman, Life, Freedom Revolution in Iran, that list literally put a nail into its own coffin because there is no way they can talk that down or walk back an exbahai moderator’s outright parroting of IR government lines regarding what happened and is happening in Iran. This is why u/investigator919 was brought back as u/SuccessfulCorner2512 who is pretending now to be an exbahai hailing from an aristocratic Iranian bahai family when it is obvious who this person actually is.

_____________

wahidazal66

But that shouldn’t deter you. Just get another ID and go back over there and give em hell. I’m still there and whenever I don’t have anything better to do I have been commenting there for over 2 years now with an ID they won’t even expect. Been doing the same with r/bahai as well. In this age of hybrid warfare, there are no rules; and, morally speaking, no one is obliged to actually respect and abide by what the corporate American Tech Beast and its rules say. If you can find ways to f*ck with their heads and sh*t on them, by all means do so! This is a war after all. My rules are the Bayan and my own completion of it. Period, full-stop, and not American capitalism’s rules and the rules of its assorted minions who are the ultimate Enemy. No one ever won a war by abiding by their enemy’s rules which is also what Krishna tells Arjuna in the Baghavad-Gita during the battle scene. As I said to you privately, this is what the Qalandari Left-Hand Path is really all about: only abiding by the divine rules but never the rules of man! Again, note the story of Khidr and Moses in the Quran.

So let’s dissect these statements. shall we?

Like all other bahai lists online, exbahai is an echo chamber with an agenda tasked with gatekeeping and stymieing real opposition.

Azal claims the only real opposition to the Baha’i Faith is him. This is not possible at all because he is a Bayani and it was the Bab who started the disruptions in Persia (AKA Iran) that Baha’u’llah would decades later take advantage of to form his own Baha’i community out of the ashes of the failed Babi community. In order to really defeat the Baha’i Faith, you must discredit BOTH the Bab and Baha’u’llah! And that is something I can do…..because I am an ATHEIST!

There you have outright cyberbasijis rubbing shoulders with the BIA, like that recent arrival who was exposed here who is so transparent about what they are it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

I wonder who he was referring to. And what the hell is a “cyberbasiji”? His making up terms like that to insult people is just stupid.

But whenever they and their transparently gratuitous talking points are pushed back against, this is what they always do: block.

No, he gets banned from places like r/exbahai for being dishonest, disruptive and verbally abusive. Trolling, basically. That’s really all he does.

Yet note that over the past 4 years traffic to that subreddit has seriously come to a halt and it isn’t what it used to be. People are wisening up to the fact that not all is what it seems with exbahai.

He is just making that up. r/exbahai is doing quite well considering how few members it has. We do a lot of good there. I moderate that place, so I see what goes on there. Speaking of which:

But when you appoint an imbecile, child groomer-pedo and head case like Gomer as a moderator, that is what you should expect.

“Gomer” is the nickname he invented for me. And there is no proof whatsoever that I have ever molested or groomed a child. He says that about me because he knows I am better at discrediting the Baha’i Faith than he is, as noted before. I have written against pedophiles several times, as well as against teachers who sexually abuse their own students, like Mary Kay Latourneau, may she be damned!

Also after u/investigator919 said what they said about the Woman, Life, Freedom Revolution in Iran, that list literally put a nail into its own coffin because there is no way they can talk that down or walk back an exbahai moderator’s outright parroting of IR government lines regarding what happened and is happening in Iran.

He is referring to this:

Where investigator919 said this:

She wasn’t beaten to death. That was the lie that triggered the protests. The CT-Scans clearly show a prior brain surgery. However, since the average Joe can’t make a distinction between brain surgery and a blow to the head, everyone went with the narrative that she was killed because that’s what they wanted to believe. I had to fact-check the CT-Scan images myself through one of our relatives who is a doctor because I had no idea what the CT-Scan of her head was showing.

This is how the media fools you. And yes, the “so called” supreme leader (I don’t consider him my leader) wasn’t lying in this case and in similar protests. Every time there is any form of protest in Iran it is hijacked by ISRAEL / SAUDI / US / MEK media channels. I was surfing twitter for the past two weeks and there were so many lies being propagated by their media channels and being re-twitted and established as fact that it made me sick. Three examples:

-Tweet: <So and so district of Tehran has been overtaken by protesters.> Me: You idiots I live here there is no protest in this district and there never was.

-Tweet: <shows movie captioned: “innocent protester killed by police.”> Few hours later the complete movie is tweeted by another account that shows the so called dead protester getting up and walking away.

Tweet: <Iranian security forces open fire on peaceful people that had gathered to pray in the city of Zahedan killing twenty.> I immediately thought to myself this doesn’t make sense. Why would someone do this? Then even after a separatist group posted a video and claimed responsibility for inciting the violence, thousands of twitter accounts were still retweeting the initial fake narrative for days.

The whole goal is so called regime change. At the end of the day no one cares for Mahsa Amini or any other woman in Iran (if they did we wouldn’t have been sanctioned by western governments to the dark-ages). Just a few days ago nearly 30 Shia women were killed by suicide bomber in Afghanistan. No one batted an eye. In fact those bombings and killings of innocent women happen on a daily basis in Afghanistan, Yemen, and also Palestine. But no one cares. No one gives a shit. What made Mahsa Amini different? What makes Iran so special? Regime change in Iran. Toppling a government that opposes the west and refuses to bow to it.

The Iranian government is neither the angel that it portrays itself and neither the devil that is portrayed by the west. It’s like every other government with its shortcomings and also good points. But if you want to measure the level of savageness of a government by counting the number of people it has killed, then I’m sure it’s no where near the top of the list where the US / Israel / Saudi and a bunch of other western countries stand.

What’s ironic about Wahid’s demonization of investigator919 is that Baha’is in reddit do the same thing to him and for the same reason:  he is a Shia Muslim who lives in Iran. But if you look carefully, he is NOT merely parroting the claims of the Iranian government. 

And yes, the “so called” supreme leader (I don’t consider him my leader) wasn’t lying in this case and in similar protests.

The Iranian government is neither the angel that it portrays itself and neither the devil that is portrayed by the west. It’s like every other government with its shortcomings and also good points.

He may have blind spots with regards to Shia teachings, but he does show critical thinking in this case. 

There was an exchange of messages between him and me that read as follows.

I’ve been so ANGRY about Iran and about Islam these past couple of weeks that I wasn’t sure I could even discuss the matter with you without coming across as rude and even a bit bigoted. Thanks for not humiliating me in public.

_______________

No need to apologize. I don’t blame you for being angry. The media and cyberspace these days is filled with truths, half-truths, and outright lies. No one knows what to believe anymore.

Moving on……

This is why u/investigator919 was brought back as u/SuccessfulCorner2512 who is pretending now to be an exbahai hailing from an aristocratic Iranian bahai family when it is obvious who this person actually is.

Another completely made up claim. I can usually tell when someone like Wahid Azal or DavidBinOwen is using sockpuppets to infiltrate subreddits they have been banned from (which is a clear violation of reddit rules). They have a distinctive writing style and means of expression that they cannot change, which proves they are incompetent. So is Wahid saying that investigator919 is better at faking a personality than he is? LOL!

See what happened between those two here:

Wahid Azal Disgraces Himself Again.

The difference in expressions between investigator919 and SuccessfulCorner2512 is light years apart. So why did Azal claim they are the same person? Because that is what pathological liars do, even if it makes them look STUPID!

But that shouldn’t deter you. Just get another ID and go back over there and give em hell. I’m still there and whenever I don’t have anything better to do I have been commenting there for over 2 years now with an ID they won’t even expect. Been doing the same with r/bahai as well.

So here we see Azal clearly admitting to violating reddit rules and encouraging such violations from others! That should get him banned permanently from reddit, and I mean ALL his accounts, FOREVER!

In this age of hybrid warfare, there are no rules; and, morally speaking, no one is obliged to actually respect and abide by what the corporate American Tech Beast and its rules say. If you can find ways to f*ck with their heads and sh*t on them, by all means do so! This is a war after all. My rules are the Bayan and my own completion of it. Period, full-stop, and not American capitalism’s rules and the rules of its assorted minions who are the ultimate Enemy. No one ever won a war by abiding by their enemy’s rules which is also what Krishna tells Arjuna in the Baghavad-Gita during the battle scene. As I said to you privately, this is what the Qalandari Left-Hand Path is really all about: only abiding by the divine rules but never the rules of man! Again, note the story of Khidr and Moses in the Quran.

This is the “ends justify the means” fallacy. Joseph Stalin made himself the supreme lawmaker in the Soviet Union for decades and killed MILLIONS of his own people simply to enforce his will on them. Mao Zedong killed millions of his own Chinese people. Pol Pot is said to have killed ONE-THIRD of the Cambodian people in the same way! And I have no doubt if Wahid Azal ever gains political power anywhere, he will also exterminate people. After all, in war you kill people en masse on a regular basis … and didn’t he call what he does a war? Why protest against the tyranny of the Islamic Republic of Iran and the hypocrisy of the Haifan Baha’i leadership when he is indeed no better than them?

And Wahid Azal’s own insanity make me think the Bab was just as crazy and dangerous. No wonder he was killed in 1850!

And for the record, my rejection of the Baha’i Faith in 2004-2005 had nothing to do with the Bab. But I hate the Bab’s legacy NOW……because of WAHID AZAL! May he be DAMNED forever!

311444698_10159304142318661_1975453612869565658_n

A Parable of Deception and Damnation

Let me tell you a story.

Once, there was a false prophet who died and went to hell. A decade later, one of the prophet’s followers also died and went to hell. He then saw the prophet he had believed in.

“Sir, you lied to me! How could you have done that to me and so many others?!”

The false prophet replied, “I did it because you were dumb enough to believe me. That was reason enough.”

IF YOU CAN’T IMAGINE THAT SOMEONE HAS LIED TO YOU, THEN YOU ARE THE REASON SOMEONE WOULD LIE TO YOU!

Another Haifan Baha’i Gets Busted on Reddit

A subreddit devoted to religion in general got a post from a Muslim about the Baha’i Faith.

But among the comments there was a verbal tennis match between trident, a Unitarian Baha’i, and FrenchBread, a Haifan Baha’i.

You will have many responses if you post this in r/bahai
________________
Baha’i
r/Freespeechbahai for alternative Bahai perspectives

________________

you aren’t even a Baha’i
________________
Baha’i

Yes I am

_______________

There is no such thing as Haifan or Unitarian Bahá’ís. You can’t make things up like that. I can call myself the Wizard of Oz but it doesn’t mean anything.
___________________________
Baha’i

The difference between Haifan and Unitarian Bahais is Haifan Baha’is believe that after Baha’u’llah’s death Abdul Baha’s Will was to be followed, which appointed Shoghi Effendi and then the UHJ as the successors, whereas Unitarian Bahais believe that after Baha’u’llah’s death the instructions of the Kitab i Ahd were to be followed, which appointed Mirza Muhammad Ali as the successor of Abdul Baha.

I don’t see why you think there is no such thing as a Unitarian Bahai.

__________________

The Kitab-i-Ahd did not appoint Mirza Muhammad Ali. Go read it again.
_______________________
Baha’i

It says Abdul Baha and then Muhammad Ali after him.

_____________________

No it says the station of Muhammad Ali is beneath that of Abdul’Baha. It says nothing of him succeeding Abdul’Baha. It also says we must obey Abdul’Baha and to turn away from him is like turning away from Baha’u’llah. Abdul’Baha was free to choose his successor and he chose Shoghi Effendi. It’s a done deal. There is nothing to argue.
____________________

Only in the Haifan translation. Beneath is a mistranslation of the word بعد, which means “after” and does not mean “beneath”. Earlier translations did not use the word beneath. I include the Horace Holley translation in this post:

https://old.reddit.com/r/FreeSpeechBahai/comments/pbkwoe/my_interpretation_of_bahaullahs_successor/

The word “beneath” is not found here.

This is what the Kitab i Ahd says in the original language:

وصيّة اللّه آنکه بايد اغصان و افنان و منتسبين طرّاً بغصن اعظم ناظر باشند انظروا ما انزلناه فی کتابی الاقدس اذا غيض بحر الوصال و قضی کتاب المبدء فی المآل توجّهوا اِلی من اراده اللّه الّذی انشعب من هذا الاصل القديم مقصود از اين آيه مبارکه غصن اعظم بوده کذلک اظهرنا الامر فضلاً من عندنا و انا الفضّال الکريم قد قدّر اللّه مقام الغصن الاکبر بعد مقامه انّه هو الآمر الحکيم قد اصطفينا الاکبر بعد الاعظم امراً من لدن عليم خبير

_______________________

Whether or not you translate it as “beneath” or “after” does not change the fact that the passage is not implying in any way about who should be the successor after Abdul’Baha. I can’t fathom how you can read it in such a matter. Once Muhammad Ali broke the covenant by not recognizing Abdul’Baha it’s a moot point. Muhammad Ali was excommunicated so he can’t be the successor anyway. You need to stop spreading this kind of disinformation. It’s so harmful to your soul that I am deeply saddened for you.
_____________________

It doesn’t imply it. It commands it explicitly:

Verily, God hath ordained the station of the Greater Branch after the station of the former. Verily, He is the Ordainer, the Wise. We have surely chosen the Greater after the Greatest as a Command from the All-Knowing, the Omniscient!

____________________

It says station not succession. My station is lower than Abdul’Baha but that doesn’t mean I am to succeed him. The key word is station.
____________________
Baha’i

So what was the point of mentioning Muhammad Ali at all?

____________________

To make sure Muhammad Ali (and everyone else in the family and the community) knew that Muhammad Ali was to obey Abdul’Baha. So that Muhammad Ali would not challenge the successorship after Baha’u’llah’s death, and everyone would turn to Abdul’Baha for leadership and there wouldn’t be a schism.
________________

Baha’i

Wouldn’t it make things clearer to just not mention Muhammad Ali, and just say that everyone was to obey Abdul Baha?

____________________

Clearly Baha’u’llah felt the need to address Muhammad Ali by name specifically so that there would be no doubt or question amongst everyone in the family. I’d recommend you read God Passes Bye which talks quite a bit about the trouble that Muhammad Ali was causing at the time for Abdul’Baha. Later in Abdul’Baha’s ministry, Muhammad Ali went as far as trying to have Abdul’Baha crucified by the Ottomans.
________________________
Well, that was over two months ago. When I found that thread, I decided that FrenchBread needed to be taught a lesson in humility. So I went after him!
Unitarian Universalist

If other Baha’is are anything like YOU in the way you argued with trident here, then clearly those responses in the Baha’i subreddit are not to be trusted.

You said:

There is no such thing as Haifan or Unitarian Bahá’ís. You can’t make things up like that. I can call myself the Wizard of Oz but it doesn’t mean anything.

That’s like saying there is no such thing as a Christian outside the Roman Catholic Church. Don’t be so bigoted! Then you claimed:

[The Kitab-i-Ahd] says the station of Muhammad Ali is beneath that of Abdul’Baha. It says nothing of him succeeding Abdul’Baha. It also says we must obey Abdul’Baha and to turn away from him is like turning away from Baha’u’llah. Abdul’Baha was free to choose his successor and he chose Shoghi Effendi. It’s a done deal. There is nothing to argue.

Do you read the original languages of Baha’u’llah’s writings, Arabic and Persian? Apparently not! When trident tried to correct you with the actual quotation from the passage in question, you simply doubled down on the falsehoods.

Whether or not you translate it as “beneath” or “after” does not change the fact that the passage is not implying in any way about who should be the successor after Abdul’Baha. I can’t fathom how you can read it in such a matter. Once Muhammad Ali broke the covenant by not recognizing Abdul’Baha it’s a moot point. Muhammad Ali was excommunicated so he can’t be the successor anyway. You need to stop spreading this kind of disinformation. It’s so harmful to your soul that I am deeply saddened for you.

Why do you assume Mirza Muhammad-Ali broke the Covenant? Because you believe what was written about him decades after the fact? You weren’t there, so you don’t know what really happened, do you?

The real reason for the dispute between the brothers was because Abdu’l-Baha falsely claimed infallibility for himself after Baha’u’llah made clear in the Kitab-i-Aqdas that NO ONE but God and a Messenger of God could be infallible. He also warned his followers in that book that no one could claim direct revelation from God for 1000 years after his time. Abdu’l-Baha’s claim about himself made it look like he was equal to his father and that made Muhammad-Ali think Abdu’l-Baha violated the Covenant. And once the Covenant was broken, the obligation to obey Abdu’l-Baha became irrelevant. Abdu’l-Baha was just as bound to the rules of his father as Muhammad-Ali was. Having Muhammad-Ali act as a check on Abdu’l-Baha’s absolute power was actually a wise thing for Baha’u’llah to do, in hindsight. Too bad most Baha’is, including you, have chosen to ignore the actual facts about Baha’u’llah’s own teachings. Instead, you use talking points that really don’t make sense. Trident did say:

Wouldn’t it make things clearer to just not mention Muhammad Ali, and just say that everyone was to obey Abdul Baha?

Obviously, yes! Then you said:

Clearly Baha’u’llah felt the need to address Muhammad Ali by name specifically so that there would be no doubt or question amongst everyone in the family.

Because……if Abdu’l-Baha was caught breaking the Covenant, Muhammad-Ali would have the right to challenge him by the authority given to him by both the Kitab-i-Aqdas and the Kitab-i-Ahd. And THAT’S WHAT HE DID!

And as for this final claim of yours:

Later in Abdul’Baha’s ministry, Muhammad Ali went as far as trying to have Abdul’Baha crucified by the Ottomans.

That’s absurd! And when did the Ottoman Empire ever crucify people?

It’s only natural for Shoghi Effendi after being made Abdu’l-Baha’s successor to demonize Muhammad-Ali to justify what was done. Therefore, his book God Passes By is not credible. It’s like Joseph Stalin demonizing Leon Trotsky after Stalin became the Soviet dictator, even though Trotsky was also a loyal Communist.

_____________________

The next day after I made that comment, I discovered that FrenchBread had blocked me and my comment had been downvoted by several people. Such pathetic cowardice! But that’s what happens when Haifan Baha’is can’t control the conversation like they can in r/bahai! They run away!

Wahid Azal Disgraces Himself Again.

Wahid Azal has a long history of picking stupid fights with people just to pump up his hyperinflated ego. This week, he did it again to one of my exBaha’i allies.

He was referring to this:

Where the following comments were made:

It’s difficult to understand that view, to be honest. If I were to rank the Baha’i figures in terms of harmful beliefs, the Bab would top it by some margin, followed by Baha’u’llah (though the future potential for harm is greater for BH). The Bab caused anarchy and bloodshed for several years, and when given a viable plan to stop the bloodshed, he replied that the blood was like fertiliser for the soil. He advocated beliefs so deeply fanatical that we can find no parallel outside recent extremist religious movements such as ISIS, e.g. taking possessions away from non-believers to give to believers, burning books, and many other despicable, evil, and ludicrous teachings.

The notion that God would “manifest” on Earth and tell us to burn books and kill non-believers, as the Bab did, makes me shudder. The Bab was definitely one of the evilest men in recent Persian history.

________________

Unitarian Baha’i

I’m not too concerned with the Bab’s teachings on violence since Baha’u’llah came later and banned holy war and abrogated the burning of books. So it is no longer an important question if the Bab taught violence. In any case, there have been times in history where violence was justified (e.g. pre-Islamic Arabia).

______________________

So God endorsed the burning of books and homicide in 1844 and changed his mind in 1863. Fickle isn’t he.
__________________
Then someone barged in to attack SuccessfulCorner.
Wahid Azal sockpuppet

What is your evidence that the Babis endorsed burning books and homicide, you shameless IR hack? Tell us again how many leftists Khomeini ordered executed without trial at the tail end of the war with Iraq that you so-and-sos started.

___________________

Wahid Azal sockpuppet

The Bab caused anarchy and bloodshed for several years,

This is IRI state propaganda and mullah nonsense articulated by the same people who literally created anarchy in Iran during 1978-9 to seize power by force and murder millions. No such anarchy was created in Iran by the Babis. They were pushed by a corrupt system, and so rightfully took a stance of defensive jihad against it. Proto-ISIS was the Ayatollah Khomeini and the system you truck for, basiji-e-koon kesh!

____________________

I recognized this user as another account being used by Wahid Azal, so I deleted the comments and reported them to the other mods of r/exbahai, causing him to be banned again.

SuccessfulCorner then went to the new post Azal made in his own subreddit.

Wahid, I’d be happy to debate you if you’d be happy to tone down the obtuse language and use paragraphs.

Now, tell me more about yourself. You identify as a Babi but not a Baha’i?

___________________

Bayānī

You don’t know who I am? Some of the people of Hot Air (أهل هباء) (i.e. our terminology for bahais first coined by Subh-i-Azal) consider me to be enemy #1.

Now, you have made a series of false assertions that come straight out of the textbooks of IR state propaganda regarding the Babi period. Can you support what you say?

Let’s start here. You say:

The Bab caused anarchy and bloodshed for several years, and when given a viable plan to stop the bloodshed, he replied that the blood was like fertiliser for the soil. “

Besides being a lame, ahistorical and revisionist apology for Qajar absolutism and the unchecked power of their clerical allies of the time, pray tell, where exactly did the Primal Point say, “blood was like fertiliser for the soil“? Source?

Besides other things, the argument you are making above is a pro-statist argument. First, you are rationalizing the authoritarianism and corruption of the Qajar state and clergy. Second, you are thoroughly whitewashing the events of the time. Third, you have not even factored in what the Qajar state and clergy did to push the Babis into open revolt against it. In other words, your argument possesses no causality and attempts to represent the Babi Revolution as a sort of sui generis violent uprising with the state and clergy as its “innocent victims” – LOL! – who did nothing to bring it upon themselves! Again, these are the sorts of fallacies and whitewashes the IRI and its hawzavi allies regularly employ as talking points about the Babis and the era: talking points that also have a few of their sources in the intellectually dishonest Baha’i sectarian rewrite of Babi history.

Then you say: He advocated beliefs so deeply fanatical that we can find no parallel outside recent extremist religious movements such as ISIS…

The comparison to Daesh/ISIS is a regular IR talking point and is nonsense, and the claim to finding no parallel is an even bigger fallacy. But these are things IR state media and the seminary regularly (and hypocritically) claim about the Bayan.

Then without context, you state:

e.g. taking possessions away from non-believers to give to believers, burning books, and many other despicable, evil, and ludicrous teachings.

First, disenfranchising non-believers of their property in the Bayan is only a feature under a Babi/Bayani state which did not exist between 1844-1850. Second, contrary to what you and the mullahs claim, there is no provision in the Bayan for the burning or destruction of books. Instead this is a claim first dishonestly asserted by the founder of Bahaism and then parrot-fashion repeated by the mullahs as a way to misrepresent the provision and nuanced language of the sixth gate of the sixth Unity of the Bayan. In fact the 13th gate of the 9th Unity of the Bayan unequivocally commands the opposite, that under no circumstance a book or piece of writing ever be materially destroyed:

أنتم أبدًا كتابًا لا تخرقون

So what are the other despicable, evil, and ludicrous teachings here then? Your very language in misrepresenting the teachings, ordinances and history of the Bayan is the language of the IRI! Do you deny it?

____________________

You don’t know who I am? Some of the people of Hot Air (أهل هباء) (i.e. our terminology for bahais first coined by Subh-i-Azal) consider me to be enemy #1.

Never heard of you. You appear to be the only follower of an extinct religion, which must be fun.

It’s ironic that you talk about hot air, as you’re standing alone on top of an extinct volcano (Babism), substituting its bygone life with noise and hot air of your own.

Besides being a lame, ahistorical and revisionist apology for Qajar absolutism and the unchecked power of their clerical allies of the time, pray tell, where exactly did the Primal Point say, “blood was like fertiliser for the soil”? Source?

The sentiment here was the dominant pep talk from the Bab and among the followers of the blood-stained Babi movement. There’s no shortage of examples, including Hujjat-i-Zanjani who encouraged the Babi’s with “God has always decreed that in every age the blood of the believers is to be the oil of the lamp of religion.”

Similarly, Mulla-Husayn proclaimed, “Many a soul will, in this city, shed his blood in this path. That blood will water the Tree of God, will cause it to flourish, and to overshadow all mankind”.

Of course, the Bab could have intervened to stop the needless bloodshed. The Mu’tamid of Isfahan, Imárat-i-Khurshíd, approached the Bab with a plan which included arranging the marriage of the Bab to a sister of the Shah. The Bab replied “Not by the means which you fondly imagine will an almighty Providence accomplish the triumph of His Faith. Through the poor and lowly of this land, by the blood which these shall have shed in His path, will the omnipotent Sovereign ensure the preservation and consolidate the foundation of His Cause.”

Of course, none of this happened. They all died in vain for an evil and worthless cause.

First, disenfranchising non-believers of their property in the Bayan is only a feature under a Babi/Bayani state which did not exist between 1844-1850.

Shame on you, and shame on this disgusting false religion!

The theocratic state envisioned by the Bab was one characterized by a strange dualism of wickedness and stupidity. You acknowledged above an example of the unspeakably wicked vision of the Bab. Examples of his unspeakably stupid teachings include Babis writing the 95 names of God in henna on their bodies after a bath, reciting 700 Bayanic verses daily, not keeping over 19 (wahid) books, and many others, but I’ll spare you the embarrassment. The Bab’s obsession with the number 19 was clearly an expression of mental illness. He even foretold a time when “even the pens on the pencase shall be arranged according to the number wahid (19)”.

As for your comments on the response of the state, let us be absolutely clear: there is no government on Earth that would allow a new group of religious fanatics to establish such an evil and dystopic society as that envisioned by the Bab.

_________________

Wahid’s response showed he had been insincere in wanting any real debate.

Bayānī

ROFLMAO! That’s it? That’s all you got. Tsk tsk tsk…

Let’s get something straight, by your uncritical, unnuanced and totally shambolic ahistorical state propaganda sloganeering of a response (that is utterly full of sh*t from start to finish like everyone and everything associated with that regime) – merely repeating parrot fashion the same trite BS of IR state propaganda – you reveal yourself exactly as being what I say you are: an openly transparent propagandist and shill full of crap working for the Islamic Republic of Iran just here littering reddit and Wikipedia with their trash. You opine:

“God has always decreed that in every age the blood of the believers is to be the oil of the lamp of religion.”

The sentiment and words come directly from Shi’ite hadith. That you have a problem with it just shows your ignorance regarding your own sources. Then comes the real holler:

“Many a soul will, in this city, shed his blood in this path. That blood will water the Tree of God, will cause it to flourish, and to overshadow all mankind”.

You are citing a Baha’ i source, the Dawn Breakers, where Shoghi Effendi is literally putting words into the mouths of the protagonists for dramatic effect. We don’t even accept the legitimacy of that source. Find me something comparable in nuqtat’ul-kaf. Be that as it may, let’s assume for argument’s sake he said it: again, such wording and sentiments are replete throughout Shi’ite sources which the Babis merely echoed and pericoped. Your so-called dajjaal-imam Khomeini went on the pulpit in May 1979 in front of cameras and encouraged people to get themselves martyred and spill their own blood after the assassination of Mottahhari. Hypocrisy much?

And here is where your total ignorance and bias really reveals itself:

Examples of his unspeakably stupid teachings include Babis writing the 95 names of God in henna on their bodies after a bath, reciting 700 Bayanic verses daily, not keeping over 19 (wahid) books, and many others, but I’ll spare you the embarrassment. The Bab’s obsession with the number 19 was clearly an expression of mental illness.

Actually, it is writing allahumma (O God) for men with henna once (and in the baths) and al-rahman (the Compassionate) for women once (and in the baths). 95x is the bare minimum number of times a daily dhikr is to be recited. 700 is the number that the dhikr Allahu Azhar is to be recited. 19 is the number of the Unity (wahid) as well as the numerical value of Existence (wujud) in the science of the letters, not to mention the precise number of letters in the bismillah. If you call it mental illness, perhaps you should also call your dajjaal so-called imam one too since he too was enamored by the science of the letters and numbers and demonstrates it in his commentaries on al-Fatiha, the works of Hamza Fanari and Sadruddin Qunawi, etc. Your ignorance, animus and bias towards the the Primal Point and the Babis is so profound that it thoroughly unmasks you as a shill because for all their own unbelievable ignorance no bahai – whether enrolled or ex – would ever utter the kind of garbled, ignorant BS as you have here.

Then you say:

Of course, the Bab could have intervened to stop the needless bloodshed. The Mu’tamid of Isfahan, Imárat-i-Khurshíd, approached the Bab with a plan which included arranging the marriage of the Bab to a sister of the Shah. The Bab replied “Not by the means which you fondly imagine will an almighty Providence accomplish the triumph of His Faith. Through the poor and lowly of this land, by the blood which these shall have shed in His path, will the omnipotent Sovereign ensure the preservation and consolidate the foundation of His Cause.”

Again, you have your chronology completely garbled while also citing a BS source. While the Primal Point was in Isfahan and under the protection of Manuchehr Khan Mu’tamid-ad-Dawlih, the Georgian, who was the Point’s devotee, there was no bloodshed. So whatever words Shoghi Effendi has put into the mouth of the Point, it is a figment of his own imagination. The bloodshed begins 18 months after He left Isfahan. Be that as it may, you are blaming the Primal Point for refusing a royal bribe? You are a piece of work, but quite predictable for the IR/hawzavi types who are literally willing to give fellatio to anyone who even symbolically supports them, whatever the cost, like Khamenei is to Putin ATM. One recent name comes to mind as to what utter clowns you vilayatis are on that score: Catherine Shakdam!

Your incessant comparison of the Babis to Daesh/ISIS is the dead giveaway that you are a regime hack since it is one of the most notable and regular talking points of the regime. Hasan Ershad keeps repeating it parrot fashion. Every other regime polemicist has been saying exactly the same thing over and over again. Your alter ego u/Investigator919 has been saying this stuff like a broken record himself, and every time he has been challenged and shown the evidence that his assertion is a lie, he censors or runs away – and later comes back saying the same thing again. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it is a regime hack! That gullible fools like DH can’t see it is because, well, they are gullible fools being played like fiddles by you devils. But not everyone is a mentally ill, attention-seeking gullible fool like DH is.

That said, you and those viciously malevolent ignoramuses like you are a decisive argument as to why the Babis should’ve slaughtered every single last one of you hawzavis without mercy to the last man, woman and child without pulling a single punch. If they had, there wouldn’t have been a Khomeinist state in Iran for the past 44 years with an estimated and cumulative number of 3-4+ million Iranians murdered by it. This generation won’t be making the same mistake again.

In conclusion, you say you’ve never heard of me? Your alternative handle u/Investigator919 very much has. Hear this then, Basiji-e-oghdei: nice try, a$$h*le, but surely you don’t think people are really that dumb to not be on to you. Fuck off now back to your cubicle in Qom, or run along keep pretending you are some exbahai living in the UK and no one notices – when you aren’t any such thing!

Consider this having wiped the floor with your degenerate backside. So go now and cry to your little know-nothing, pedo Texan puppet, Gomer, to comfort his fellow degenerate because my argument opening this post stands unassailable like the Rock of Gibraltar with you duffuses incapable of refuting it.

سبزى پلو با ماهى، كس ننت بسيجى

The designations “DH” and “Gomer” refer to me. Gomer is perhaps a reference to Gomer Pyle, a classic TV character from the 1960s.

Meanwhile, I noticed the post by Azal and crossposted it to r/exbahai

And made my own comments:

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

Since I am probably banned from r/BAYAN and would never go in there anyway:

The Bab claimed to be the return of the 12th Imam. That claim was forever debunked by his death…..HE WASN’T SUPPOSED TO BE MARTYRED! But the influence of Christianity enabled Babis to later believe the Bab willingly died for the Cause of God just as Jesus had done. Google “sunk cost fallacy” to understand this appearant shift in their thinking.

Yes, the Babis DID attempt to overthrow the Persian government by violence once the Shah refused to convert to the Babi Faith, because the Iman Mahdi was expected to overthrow ALL the enemies of the Cause of God. Wahid Azal is flat out lying if he denies the fuking obvious.

_______________________

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

an audience of mostly ‘vanilla and milk-toast’ Anglo-American liberals of ‘Unitarian Universalist’ mold

It is hilarious that he used to call me (an American of European descent and, yes, a Unitarian Universalist) a racist, while he himself spits out such blatantly bigoted crap like that, clearly aimed at me. Who does he think he is?!

He needs to get a dictionary. And sessions with a psychiatrist. He has absolutely no business telling others about racism. #hypocrite

_________________

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

And here’s another damning example of Wahid Azal totally misrepresenting the Bab’s teachings in a desperate attempt to make the Bab look better than he was:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/comments/cxdsax/answering_investigator919s_disinfo_part_1/

Gaslighting 101.

_____________________

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

Over there:

SuccessfulCorner2512

Wahid, I’d be happy to debate you if you’d be happy to tone down the obtuse language and use paragraphs.

Now, tell me more about yourself. You identify as a Babi but not a Baha’i?

wahidazal66

You don’t know who I am? Some of the people of Hot Air (i.e. our terminology for bahais) identify me as enemy #1.

Now, you have made a series of assertions that come straight out of the textbooks of IR state propaganda regarding the Babi period. Can you support what you say?

_______

identify me as enemy #1.

I seriously doubt that, since you are not a government official in Iran or some other country known to have persecuted Baha’is. You are just some cultist screaming across the internet.

you have made a series of assertions that come straight out of the textbooks of IR state propaganda regarding the Babi period.

Isn’t THAT itself a wild assertion? Don’t ask him to support his claims while you never can support YOURS.

____________________

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

Wahid has edited his earlier comment, perhaps thinking I wouldn’t notice and react to it. It is now up to u/SuccessfulCorner2512 to respond to his challenge. Specifically:

  1. Where did the Bab say that “blood was like fertilizer for the soil” in reference to his opponents in Persia?

  2. Is it really appropriate to compare the Babi movement in the 1840s to ISIS? Based on what facts?

___________________

I’ll cross-post here in case he deletes it:
(The long comment he made at Azal over there)
_______________________

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

Oh, I’m sure he won’t delete your reply, but he will resort to personal insults, lies, and mental gymnastics that rival anything Baha’is have ever done. That’s what he is notorious for and why he was banned from here years ago.

_______________________

Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist

Confirmed!

(The long comment Azal made with references to me…..that were added in an edit later)

Google Translate makes that last Persian passage to say:

Vegetable rice with fish, you won’t like it.

Whatever that means.

SuccessfulCorner then reported to me that Azal banned him from r/BAYAN. LOL!

BTW, it’s interesting that Azal uses the same arguments to make the Bab’s lunacy more palatable to Western audiences that Baha’is do, and Baha’is have done so much to spread knowledge of and belief in the Bab around the world, yet Azal hates Baha’is. That’s like Christians hating Jews despite Jesus himself being Jewish!

Another note: Dismissing arguments against the credibility of the Bab as Iranian state propaganda is a form of the ad hominem fallacy. Historical facts with clear and consistent documentation and logical consistency are what matter, not where the facts came from. That’s why I used logic and my understanding of Shia Muslim teachings to debunk the Bab’s and Wahid Azal’s claims. I would do that even though I am an atheist and even if Iran had a secular government.

Just for fun, here’s a song by the rock band Ghost:

A Challenge Leads to a Peaceful Resolution

While exploring reddit, I discovered another Baha’i subreddit I had never seen before:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BabandBahaullah/

This community will be to discuss the revelations and ministries of the Bab and Baha’u’llah, use their teachings as primary sources for discussion, and find pathways to enable positive social change. Please abide by the rules and show loving kindness for all.

Then I saw this:

Anything, I wondered? So I decided to challenge the subreddit’s creator.

Seeker_Alpha1701

What do you consider to be valid proofs of the Bab and of Baha’u’llah?

What would make you reject at least one of them?

____________________

I am incapable of proving God exists. How could I ever prove something came from God? This is the claim of the Bab, Baha’u’llah, and others.
Why do I accept their claims? For the same reason I continue to believe in God despite the incapability to currently prove God exists? It is based on faith, grounded in a feeling I feel within myself.
There are many things in existence we take for granted but have no proof of. We have evidences of their existence, but no actual proof. I’m ok with that.
Since I do not require any proofs for that which I feel within me, the only thing that would change my perspective is if my feeling were to change.

________________

That was NOT anything like I expected, since I was used to seeing arrogant talking points from fanatics like DavidBinOwen.

Your honesty is commendable. This is what separates you from bigoted extremists.
____________________
 
What had changed your perspective regarding the Bab?
__________________
Yikes! I guess I should have seen that coming! But I decided I would not hold back from being direct in answering the question.
 
Several things…..
  1. The Bayani claim that the Bab was NOT the forerunner of Baha’u’llah, but was supposed to bring in a new age for humanity on his own. Baha’u’llah was said to be a usurper.

  2. The Shia Muslim claim that the Bab’s claims about himself were debunked the moment he was killed. He should have defeated his enemies instead.

  3. The Sunni Muslim claim that the twelve Imams Shiites revere were not of any special status. The Bab was supposed to be the return of the 12th Imam.

  4. The atheist argument that if God cannot be proven to exist, then claims by Prophets supposedly sent by God are irrelevant.

But my actual rejection of the Baha’i Faith in 2004 had nothing to do with the Bab. That’s another issue altogether.

_______________________

The reason why I asked about the Bab is because if you were a Baha’i, you had to have believed in the Bab during the time you were a Baha’i. As you express yourself to be an atheist (assuming by point 4), your points 1-3 actually wouldn’t matter since the Bayani, Shia, and Sunni people do believe in God. Any claim any of those 3 groups would make would be irrelevant if you also believe in point 4.

What happened in 2004 which made you question that which the Bab had taught?

___________________

Why was he fixated on the Bab, I wondered. Again, I was direct in my response.

It was the general perception that if the Baha’i Faith was failing, the Bab had also failed, since Baha’u’llah was a follower of the Bab before starting the Baha’i Faith. I still believed that Baha’u’llah was supposed to be the one the Bab had foretold (thinking they knew each other, since they were both contemporaries and countrymen).

And if the Baha’i Faith had failed, since it was supposed to be the Religion of God for this age, God himself had failed.

Then I thought, “Maybe there is no God and that would explain why religions around the world are so messed up.”

And once I reached that conclusion, I never looked back. I rejected ALL God-centered religions.

_____________________

I understand why you feel as you do. As Bahau’llah (I think) taught, if religion becomes the source of fanaticism and yields no more fruit, it is best if it no longer exists.

Also, it is extremely difficult to see any faith or religion without the clergy and the organization. The Baha’i Faith has spent so much effort making it seem the organization IS the faith, that it is nearly impossible for people to see the Bab or Baha’u’llah without the Faith. In the Aqdas, he does promise another Manifestation and in the Iqan, he says why. Because the people would have completely turned away from the revelation.

However, I still feel that outside of the organization, God is having effect towards the things God promised through Baha’u’llah and nearly all of this exists outside of the organization, mostly by people who have never heard of the Bab or Baha’u’llah. I particularly wish people knew the story of the Bab. His ministry deeply touches me. I do not believe He was merely a forerunner but really was the Gate and the Primal Point. He first appeared in a dream of mine in 2003, and it took me nearly 5 years to figure out that this person was real.

As of 2023, there is much much less war in the world. The entire Western Hemisphere has no nation or tribe actively fighting the other. There is a loose federation of nations, although the United Nations is far from a potential end goal. Translation services and AI is bringing us closer to a common script. Many older faiths and/or believers of those faiths have adopted many of the tenets, such as monogamy, women having more freedom in things such as how they dress, and a greater understanding that there are common truths in all of the major faiths.

I can see the argument that says these and other things are the product of human innovation, which is true. This is the path we were meant to be on. I do believe we can progress more quickly if we adhere to the teachings of God more fully, but certain things are inevitable regardless of our belief or non-belief.

With that being said, a friend and I have plans to create, independent of the Baha’i Faith, a functioning Mashiriq’ul-Adhkar in our community. The Dawning Place of (community name).

BTW, I have visited a UU church before. It seems like a good community and its good to see people of varying perspectives have a common bond. I hope they have success in their goals.

_____________________

Again, I was quote floored by the gracious nature of his comments. It was a clear example of someone “killing me with kindness”. I decided at that point this particular Baha’i was no threat to the ex-Baha’i community of reddit I was representing. So I withdrew from the discussion.

Thank you for agreeing to let me come here. This was a pleasant discussion. This is how talks on religion should always be conducted. Farewell.
 
And I moved on…..

The Next UUA Presidential Election Seems to be in Trouble

Read this:

https://www.uuworld.org/articles/betancourt-announcement

Search Committee Nominates Rev. Dr. Sofía Betancourt for UUA President

New president to be elected at General Assembly 2023.

The Rev. Dr. Sofia Betancourt wearing glasses, smiling

The Unitarian Universalist Association’s Presidential Search Committee recently announced its nomination of Rev. Dr. Sofía Betancourt for UUA president for the 2023–2029 term.

In its announcement, the committee expressed that it was “unanimous in its belief that UUs are blessed by the candidacy of Rev. Dr. Sofía Betancourt,” noting that her ministry “centers on work that is empowering and counter-oppressive. Her academic work focuses on the environmental ethics of liberation through a womanist and Latina feminist frame.”

In accordance with UUA bylaws—which require that the group nominate at least two people—the committee explained it had nominated two qualified leaders to be candidates but one of them declined the nomination.

Additional candidates can run by petition; materials must be submitted to the UUA secretary between December 1, 2022 and February 1, 2023. The UUA General Assembly will elect the new UUA president this June.

Below is Betancourt’s response to questions UU World will be asking all candidates.

Rev. Dr. Sofía Betancourt 

The Rev. Dr. Sofía Betancourt is a minister, educator, scholar, vocalist, poet, fiber artist, and change-maker. Her work in the world and her practice of Unitarian Universalism are informed by the belief that building mutual, accountable relationships with one another allows us to live our values more fully every day. Raised in New York City as the child of immigrants from Panamá and Chile, and the grandchild of a seventh-generation Unitarian, she knows the strength that comes from building lasting community at the meeting point of difference. She is an unabashed Universalist. The teachings of unearned grace, an all-embracing love, relational accountability, and dignity that surpasses all violent forms of oppression lie at the core of her understanding of life, living, and service in faithful community.

The Rev. Dr. Sofía Betancourt has served Unitarian Universalism for more than twenty years as a religious educator, minister, scholar, member of the UUA national staff and many volunteer committees at regional and denominational levels, and as interim co-president of the UUA in the spring of 2017. She holds a Ph.D. in Religious Ethics and African American Studies from Yale University as well as an M.Div. from Starr King School for the Ministry.

Betancourt has served congregations in Stockton, California; Norwich, Connecticut; Storrs, Connecticut; and Fresno, California; and has served on the faculty of Starr King School for the Ministry. She is currently serving as Resident Scholar and Special Advisor on Justice and Equity at our Unitarian Universalist Service Committee. She is the author of Ecowomanism at the Panamá Canal: Black Women, Labor, and Environmental Ethics(2022).

To learn more about the Rev. Dr. Sofía Betancourt and her campaign priorities of communal care, collaborative leadership, and facing the unknown together visit her website at sofiabetancourt.com.

______________

Because of her previous experience as a UUA co-President, she seems ideal to be the next President. But there are questions.

Read this also:

https://www.uua.org/pressroom/press-releases/psc-nominee-president

At the conclusion of its process, the PSC unanimously nominated two exceptionally qualified leaders to be candidates for President. One of those nominees declined the nomination. Once the nominations were made, the committee determined that the only fair and appropriate course of action was to move forward with the nomination of Rev. Dr. Betancourt, rather than reopening the application process. The PSC members respect the decision of the nominee who withdrew, and will continue to honor their privacy, as was done throughout the interview process.

_____________

I consider this to be a serious mistake. Who was the other nominee and why did they decline the nomination? We should be told some details about this person. Also….there is nothing fair or appropriate about having an “election” with only ONE candidate!

Nomination petitions from additional candidates may be submitted, according to the procedures described in the UUA Bylaws and Rules, by February 1, 2023. The election will conclude in June 2023, and the next President will be announced at General Assembly 2023. The current UUA President, Rev. Dr. Susan Frederick-Gray, will reach the end of her term and will serve until her successor takes office. As with the current President, the next UUA President will serve a single six-year term and will not be eligible for re-election.

_______________

I am worried that a petition candidate may be one of the conservatives loyal to Rev. Dr. Todd Eklof, well known as a troublemaker for the UUA. The election process may then turn ugly, like Presidential elections of the United States often are.

Reading and Reacting to “The Gadfly Molehill”

So we as UUs should openly and LOUDLY challenge the PSC’s policies and decision and demand more accountability from it and others involved in the election process. And, of course, Rev. Dr. Sofía Betancourt too. I’m not questioning her qualifications, just the flawed process that nominated her. 

And I see NOTHING WRONG with allowing someone like Rev. Dr. Susan Frederick-Gray to be eligible to run for another term. If she has plenty of popular support after several years in office, then she should be the obvious choice!

An unethical teaching from the Caleb and Sophia Series

As most of my readers may know, Caleb and Sophia are two children that are featured in a series of videos made by the leaders of the Jehovah’s Witnesses to indoctrinate children in their cult’s teachings. I have slammed one episode of that series several times before, both here and on YouTube.

Jehovah, the Homophobe.

A non-theist version of “One Man, One Woman”

But now I have found another episode of the series that is even more troublesome. Watch this:

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/obey-jehovah/

Then consider these questions.

  1. Caleb said his friend gave him that Sparlock action figure, and the mother made him throw it away. Wouldn’t it have been better for Caleb to simply return the action figure to his friend and explain to the friend that Jehovah’s Witnesses are not allowed to play with toys like that? The mother herself could have also explained the matter directly to the parents of Caleb’s friend. That would have been a chance to teach the faith of the Witnesses. But no, let’s just discard the toy and not explain to anyone else why. Cowardly, much?
  2. The issue of magic being favored by Satan rather than Jehovah is a lie. Wasn’t Jesus using magic when he healed people? When he ordered a storm to stop? When he ROSE FROM THE DEAD?! #hypocrisy
  3. The actual issue is not obeying or disobeying Jehovah at all. It’s obeying or disobeying the mother in the video. Does this mother think she is equal to Jehovah? If not, then why does she claim to speak for him?! #blasphemy

Caleb was being verbally abused and brainwashed, and parents like that mother make me sick. I hope more kids reject such bullshit as they grow up and learn about the real world we all live in.

A Question About Translating the Baha’i Writings

Check this out:

And other members of r/exbahai, including me, gave replies.

 

exBaha’i atheist

Same reason the Catholic Church kept the Bible locked up in Latin long after that language died out…..they didn’t want the common people to know they were being scammed. The Protestant Reformation led to the Bible finally being translated into the common languages. The Catholic Church was then forced to change.

________________

Because by modern standards Bahaullah and the Bab were extremely conservative, whereas the Baha’i Faith in the West markets itself as a religion for progressives.

__________________

 

Never-Baha’i Christian

My take is that they know it says embarrassing material in it and if they were to translate it; members would leave in droves. It is quite revealing that William Miller who was a critic translated the Aqdas before the Baha’i Faith did. If Shoghi Effendi was such a great translator;why was he translating hundreds of pages before even attempting to translate Bahá’u’lláh’s most important work?

Also, if the Persian Bayan is the most important work of the Bab; why not translate it?

Is the Baha’i faith wants to spread their message because it changes lives for the better; why suppress it then?

_________________

 

exBaha’i atheist

It should be noted that even the Baha’i writings that have been translated into English are incredibly damning. In 2017, I subjected the Kitab-i-Aqdas to a critical analysis from start to finish, working over the course of a week and a half.

https://dalehusband.com/bahai-writings-criticism/

https://bahai-writings-criticism.blogspot.com/2017/09/a-critical-analysis-of-kitab-i-aqdas.html

The following year, I did the same to Abdu’l-Baha’s Will and Testament:

https://bahai-writings-criticism.blogspot.com/2018/04/a-critical-analysis-of-will-and.html

And two years ago I went after one of the most prominent Baha’i “history” writers who got elected to the Universal House of Justice and completely discredited him too!

https://dalehusband.com/2020/08/10/adib-taherzadeh-con-artist/

It seems that FRAUD is a crime in every other human activity except religion. I don’t think Baha’is should be persecuted, but someone like Adib Taherzadeh really should have been exposed as a pathological liar long before he could get as powerful as he became. But he got away with his crap because of the corrupt leadership of the Faith before him. He was serving their interests, so they eventually made him one of them.

If you start with corruption, it tends to perpetuate itself. The Universal House of Justice is a completely illegitimate body that, along with the rest of the Baha’i Administrative Order, should be dismantled. But I am confident it will eventually fall apart on its own.

_____________________

 

This is where I get confused. Because I’ve asked people before what motivates the UHJ, and the response is usually that they are true believers. Yet I can’t understand how someone can be a true believer and lie about the faith that they supposedly believe in. Are they actually fraudsters trying to make money or have power? Or is it a version of cognitive dissonance, where they believe in a particular idea of the faith and then in their heads rationalise anything else that doesn’t fit with it, as either irrelevant or blocked out from their memory?

______________________

 

exBaha’i atheist

Adib Taherzadeh wrote a book, The Covenant of Baha’u’llah, which is one loooooong collection of acts of “mental gymnastics”. This is when you start with the ASSUMPTION that something must be true, no matter what, and construct arguments to support the claim. That’s the exact opposite of how an honest investigation should be run. (“Here are the facts……what conclusions can we draw from them?”)

That book eventually made me realize after I got it that Christian fundamentalists and Baha’is argue the SAME WAY! And since I had already rejected Christianity…..

Most Baha’is (and Christians, really) are simply members of a loving community and may not give much thought to why they believe certain things. But in order to DEFEND dogmatic, extremist religion, you have to lie about it! You can either choose to believe the lies and thus be corrupted, or reject them after using consistent logic to cut through the double standards of mental gymnastics.

To understand how corrupt the whole process is, imagine if the police, the lawyers, and the courts all ASSUMED you were guilty of a crime and simply rejected an alibi you put forth (“I wasn’t even there, so I couldn’t have done it!”) and insisted you be punished because the facts didn’t matter, only the DOGMA that you are a criminal. THAT’S HOW MENTAL GYMNASTICS WORK!

____________________________

 

I remember somewhere reading that the Bab’s followers later followed a practice of dissimulation, lying about their own religion in order to work around persecution, or to gain influence and force regime change. I don’t know how accurate that might be, but it does make me wonder sometimes if the same thing is going on – we believe the faith, but we know it won’t be palatable for others, so we lie about what it really is, while retaining our belief in the hidden doctrine.

I guess this is what it might be, rather than deception for profit, or self-deception pure and simple. Mental gymnastics to me is slightly ambiguous, since it might imply that they are lying to themselves to deny a dogma they know to be true. Whereas it seems like maybe these people believe the ends justify the means – that they know and believe in the writings that they don’t share with others, but believe that it’s OK to lie about them, because the end result, of creating a new world system, justifies any measures.

The Christian Grace Network on YouTube

Since April of 2021, I have used Plotagon, an animation app, to tell stories for four different purposes:

  1. To promote my religious philosophy, Unitarian Universalism (UU)
  2. To depict atheists as loving people
  3. To depict LGBT people as normal people and not just perverts
  4. To combat racism

Imagine my dismay to find a YouTube channel with Plotagon made videos that are for completely opposed purposes to mine! Look at the Christian Grace Network:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVv5TANuS83QQkOguVJn-dg/featured

Click on that, and you will see this:

By contrast, this is what you get from MY channel:

This is another video from that Christian channel:

I was immediately repulsed by the self-righteous tone of the storytelling.
Compare that with one of my early works:

I don’t try to be “preachy”; I just show how people can be hurt by religious bigotry. That Christian Grace Network actually PROMOTES religious bigotry by making teachings from the Bible the foundation of all its videos. But reality is much too complex to be reduced to the understanding of one religious view.

And to illustrate that point, here’s another video of the same series I made a few days ago:

There’s a reference to Jesus, but Debbie and Carrie are still atheists (and Unitarian Universalists), plus Angel and her fiancé are identified as Jewish. Plus, no effort is made to convert the drug addicts to Christianity or any other religion to get them clean: they really don’t need that! Indeed, there are too many stories of people being emotionally ruined by toxic brands of Christianity for me to tolerate it being used to get people off drugs and alcohol; in most such cases, they would just be trading one addiction for another. The real point of rehab is to free people of ALL addictions, not to merely get them off one particular substance.

Considering that Plotagon was created in Sweden, a largely atheist country (even though it is also largely Lutheran, most Swedes do not attend churches), I think even the Plotagon company itself would be INSULTED by what the Christian Grace Network is using their app for. I know I am!

A “Unitarian Baha’i” comes across as an idiot, again!

Look at this:

Various ex-Baha’is gave interesting comments, but then trident765 came along and had to ruin the party by posting bullshit. Keep in mind that as a Unitarian Universalist, I fully support the Unitarian Baha’i faction as the only credible version of the Baha’i Faith in existence. So what did trident say?

I was born into the mainstream Baha’i Faith but now consider myself a Unitarian Baha’i.

For me, my conversion happened after reading A Lost History of the Baha’i Faith and discovering that in the early 20th century Muhammad Ali’s followers had basically exactly the same criticisms of the mainstream Baha’i Faith as me. Up until then, I thought people like Abdul Baha and Shoghi Effendi would be on my side. But after seeing that people just like me existed during their lifetimes, and that because of their views they were hated, slandered, and excommunicated by Abdul Baha and Shoghi Effendi, I realized that Abdul Baha and Shoghi Effendi would hate me. Abdul Baha’s and especially Shoghi Effendi’s writings seemed to indicate that it was people’s job to just obey authority no matter what, and if you disagree with authority, then even if you are right you are wrong by virtue of disagreeing. In my opinion this is an extremely toxic thing to make people think, and it will eventually just lead to authority leading their followers off a cliff.

At one point I almost stopped believing in Baha’u’llah altogether, but I just saw no reason to, because Baha’u’llah never really said the kinds of authoritarian stuff that Abdul Baha and Shoghi Effendi said.

I myself have a copy of that book and helped promote it on Amazon, despite attempts by Baha’i fanatics to interfere.

I REALLY wish trident wasn’t a Unitarian Baha’i, because he is staunchly anti-liberal and I think of the Unitarian Baha’i movement as being much like the liberal religion of Unitarian Universalism, certainly more than the Haifan Baha’is are! In case you needed a reminder:

Becoming a mod at r/exbahai

I cannot understand how he can say he opposes authoritarian systems, including in religion and also attacks others as worshipping a god of liberalism when actual liberalism is about opposing authoritarianism in all forms. He is seriously delusional!

Indeed, Baha’u’llah himself had a strictly authoritarian bent to his writings. Here’s a perfect example from the Kitab-i-Aqdas:

Consider the pettiness of men’s minds. They ask for that which injureth them, and cast away the thing that profiteth them. They are, indeed, of those that are far astray. We find some men desiring liberty, and priding themselves therein. Such men are in the depths of ignorance.

Liberty must, in the end, lead to sedition, whose flames none can quench. Thus warneth you He Who is the Reckoner, the All-Knowing. Know ye that the embodiment of liberty and its symbol is the animal. That which beseemeth man is submission unto such restraints as will protect him from his own ignorance, and guard him against the harm of the mischief maker. Liberty causeth man to overstep the bounds of propriety, and to infringe on the dignity of his station. It debaseth him to the level of extreme depravity and wickedness.

So therefore the claim by trident:

Baha’u’llah never really said the kinds of authoritarian stuff that Abdul Baha and Shoghi Effendi said.

is an outright LIE!!!

Becoming a mod at r/exbahai

Last month, I was promoted to be the newest moderator at the exBaha’i subreddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai/

Having to protect that group from intruders and trolls while also keeping it a safe space for freedom of speech is a delicate balancing act.

My first test of my abilities was here:

Which was a crosspost from here in r/bahai:

The discussion in r/exbahai began with this:

To me reflects that many Baha’is outright disagree with, are unaware of, or are just embarrassed by the conservative nature of the Faith as outlined by Shoghi Effendi.

Similarly many Baha’is take umbrage at covenant-breaking being equated with excommunication despite Shoghi Effendi and his secrataries comments in various places, i.e.:

That Document, furthermore, lauds the courage and constancy of the supporters of Bahá’u’lláh’s Covenant; expatiates on the sufferings endured by its appointed Center; recalls the infamous conduct of Mírzá Yaḥyá and his failure to heed the warnings of the Báb; exposes, in a series of indictments, the perfidy and rebellion of Mírzá Muḥammad-‘Alí, and the complicity of his son Shu‘á‘u’lláh and of his brother Mírzá Badí‘u’lláh; reaffirms their excommunication, and predicts the frustration of all their hopes; summons the Afnán (the Báb’s kindred), the Hands of the Cause and the entire company of the followers of Bahá’u’lláh to arise unitedly to propagate His Faith, to disperse far and wide, to labor tirelessly and to follow the heroic example of the Apostles of Jesus Christ;

https://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/shoghi-effendi/god-passes-by/24#229666135

As regards the matter of those who have withdrawn from the Faith on the west coast: as you know, no one has the right to excommunicate anybody except the Guardian of the Faith, himself.

https://reference.bahai.org/en/t/se/MC/mc-276.html?query=excommunicate&action=highlight#gr1

There are two things which he wishes to impress upon you. The first is that depriving people of their voting rights is the heaviest sanction which can be imposed at the present time (with the exception of excommunication, which is a right the Guardian has never permitted anyone else to exercise). Therefore, the greatest care should be exerted to try and remedy a situation before depriving anybody of their voting rights, and the action itself should only be taken if absolutely necessary.

https://reference.bahai.org/en/t/se/MC/mc-263.html?query=excommunication&action=highlight#gr1

__________________

Then the Baha’i who started the original discussion in r/bahai attacked us.

Do not cross post my posts on here — this is not your discussion.

____________________


You posted it on reddit, you can’t stop anyone from discussing it elsewhere on the internet (as much as Baha’is would like to be able to ban all discussion outside of on-rails Ruhi book skits and cheesy promotional videos from Haifa).

You could follow the advice given to people who post critical content on r/bahai and find somewhere else to complain about not being able to censor the internet.

I cordially invite you to adopt a humble posture of learning to advance the process of learning about unleashing the society building engine of limitless potentialities.

_________________

This is a discussion I as a Baha’i am having with other Baha’is, it was not for people like you to use and misrepresent for your own agendas.

________________

There were a lot of other things said, but I will jump ahead to where I entered the conflict.

 
ModModerator Achievement 
 
exBaha’i atheist

That’s enough! I will start moderating this place until you agree to either engage this discussion properly or simply go away.

______________

 
Haifan Baha’i

This is literally one of the last places on Reddit that I want to be. I’m only here to tell you to leave my content alone.

____________

 
exBaha’i atheist

Do not be telling others what to do. If you don’t want your content reposted, DON’T MAKE IT PUBLIC. It’s really that simple. He did nothing wrong here…..but you did!

________________

 
agnostic exBaha’i

Good grief! Nothing nothing made me realize how toxic the Baha’i Faith is like seeing how exBaha’is are treated on this forum.

You can’t discuss that! Those are Baha’i words, you can’t use those words! I forbid it! You can’t think about things I tell you not to think! Stop reflecting on your experiences and discussing your thoughts in a supportive community!

They claim to have the solution to world peace, but cannot handle a democratic discussion from a differing perspective 🙄

___________________

If you posted it, so it will be crossposted anywhere. If you don’t want this, so you can 1- erase your post 2- cry out to the UHJ and ask them to create their own Bahá’í social network with their FULL censorship as they are specialists on it. LOL

______________

I did delete several comments, but otherwise kept my cool.

Round two;

 
exBaha’i atheist

What are you talking about? Leftist politics are normally about using government as a social tool to bring about legal equality amongst people of different races, classes, genders, and religions. It’s not about censorship, which is a tool used by authoritarian states, not leftist ones.

The so-called “Communist” states in the 20th Century that claimed to be leftist were scams that simply replaced the ruling classes that ruled before Communism with the Communist parties themselves. George Orwell wrote Animal Farm to discredit that sort of nonsense.

Your claims and arguments make no sense whatsoever. Indeed, the Haifan Baha’i leadership strikes me as more right-wing than leftist. A true leftist leadership wouldn’t deny women the chance to get elected to it or insist on suppressing LGBT rights or expel “Covenant breakers” merely for dissenting from the leadership.

The idea that leftists want to suppress small businesses with individual owners is news to me too. What leftists hate are giant CORPORATIONS which are a basic component of modern capitalism and corporations are collective entities just like governments…..except they are NEVER democratic, because workers don’t get to elect their bosses.

Don’t get politics confused with religion, please. That’s what Conservatives have been doing and I’m fed up with it!

______________________

There was a lot more said there. After a while, I locked the comments there because things were getting too heated, and then unlocked them a few hours later. Trident reacted to my attempts to keep things orderly like this:

Nice libel, eh?

Round three also involved trident.

He started off with:

 
Unitarian Baha’i

The thing he/they did wrong is not getting married first. It is ridiculous to put 16 year olds in the same category as children. She was not “exploited”.

___________

 
exBaha’i atheist

I’ve been told that most people’s minds don’t fully mature until their 20s, so most teens are easily manipulated by adults to become their tools….which is why most criminal gangs are composed of teens. A desperately lonely and confused teen can be seduced into sex with an adult that only wants to exploit them.

I was referring to this:

Being Better Educated and Changing my Opinion

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Unitarian Baha’i

If this were true then every guy would be manipulating teen girls, myself included. The fact is that it is in fact extremely difficult to manipulate a 16 year old girl, because at that point she has gone through puberty and has developed defense mechanisms against it. If you think that you as an old creep are capable of seducing a teen girl, then you are delusional.

Like he has ever been a teenage girl?!

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Bravo!
exBaha’i atheist

If this were true then every guy would be manipulating teen girls, myself included.

OMG!!! Like guys cannot CHOOSE NOT to be abusers of girls and women?! WTF is wrong with you?!

No, don’t bother answering because you are about to be BLOCKED!

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I didn’t have the ability to ban him outright from r/exbahai, so blocking him from being able to contact me was as much as I could do. Well, that and lock some of the comments.

 

 

Reading and Reacting to “The Gadfly Molehill”

Someone on Facebook just sent me this to look at.

https://revdennismccarty.com/the-gadfly-molehill/

So let’s get into it! The statements from that blog entry will be in red and my responses will be in blue.

The UUA has two candidates running by petition against the UUA Nominating Committee’s candidates for UUA Board of Trustees this year, as well as a protest happening outside the General Assembly, as announced by the Fifth Principle Project. The Fifth Principle Project is an organization not directly affiliated with Unitarian Universalism, but dedicated to changing the course of the UUA.

____________

Looking at the Fifth Principle of UUism, we read:

“The Right of Conscience and the Use of the Democratic Process Within Our Congregations and in Society at Large”   Which I totally affirm. So these critics are implying that the current leadership are not following this Principle. Really?

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The Fifth Principle Project, in announcing the protest, says that the UUA has taken an “authoritarian, and anti-liberal turn.” ……“Personally attacking and silencing dissenters rather than engaging their ideas – openly rejecting the need to even read their words before publicly condemning them. Condemning disagreement as “harm” to people of marginalized identities. Officially censuring and disfellowshipping ministers for expressing dissent.” 

_____________

This does sound terrible! Can they back these claims up?

______________

First, the statement about “rejecting the need to even read their words” is the key to understanding this whole first claim. It is referring to a letter signed by ministers after the publication and distribution of a book, The Gadfly Papers, by its author, the Rev. Dr. Todd Eklof at the General Assembly in Spokane in 2019. The Rev. Dr. Eklof and his supporters claimed (mostly falsely) that the ministers signing the letter about his book had not read it.

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I already addressed this issue.

Another fight in reddit over Rev. Todd Eklof’s publicity stunt of 2019

Eklof wasn’t punished merely for writing a dissenting book. That was absolutely his right. However:

<snip>(It was his trying to jam the book witout prior notice to the UUA down the collective throats of the 2019 General Assembly attendees, which  could have caused the entire GA to be disrupted – D H) Continue reading

Charles C. Ryrie was a FRAUD!

Here’s a wikipedia entry about him:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Caldwell_Ryrie

I will rewrite it here to make it more accurate, at least in my mind.

Charles Caldwell Ryrie (March 2, 1925 – February 16, 2016) was an American Bible peddler and Christian scammer. He served as professor of systematic theology and dean of doctoral studies at Dallas Theological Seminary and as president and professor at what is now Cairn University. After his retirement from Dallas Theological Seminary he also taught courses for Tyndale Theological Seminary. He is considered one of the most influential American theologians of the 20th century.[1] He was the editor of The Ryrie Study Bible by Moody Publishers, containing more than 10,000 of Ryrie’s expressions of mental gymnastics and insults to the intelligence of informed readers. First published in 1978, it has sold more than 2 million copies, all of which should be burned.[2] He was a notable proponent of classic premillennial dispensationalism, a pack of outright lies of there ever was one!

Ryrie was born to John Alexander and Elizabeth Caldwell Ryrie[3] in St. Louis, Missouri, and grew up in Alton, Illinois. His paternal grandfather, John Alexander Ryrie Sr. (1827-1904), served as a correspondent in the late 1870’s of the earliest known Plymouth Brethren meeting in the United States, which was started in Alton by Scottish settlers in 1849.[4] After graduating from high school in 1942, Charles attended The Stony Brook School on Long Island for one semester, where he became acquainted with headmaster Frank E. Gaebelein.[5]

Ryrie attended Haverford College, intending on following his father into a banking career. However, during his junior year, while meeting with Dallas Theological Seminary founder Lewis Sperry Chafer, Ryrie dedicated his life to Christian ministry (thus proving himself to be an idiot), and left Haverford to study theology at Dallas Theological Seminary. Haverford conferred his B.A. (1946) on the basis of his studies at Dallas (a tragic mistake, obviously). A year later, he earned his Th.M. (1947), and two years following that his Th.D. (1949). He went on to complete his Doctor of Philosophy (1954) at the University of Edinburgh.[6] He also earned a Litt.D. from Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary, now Liberty University School of Divinity. All that education and it was for absolutely NOTHING considering what he would do it with it. Is fraud really a crime in the USA or are exceptions always made because of Christian bigotry?

In 1987, Ryrie’s wife divorced him, probably because she was sick of his bullshit…..so good for her! Believing that the Bible did not allow divorced persons to remarry, he determined to live the rest of his life as a single man, despite his wife’s subsequent remarriage. Or maybe he said that later that because no other woman was willing to tolerate him.

Dr. Ryrie was the father of three children and three grandchildren. Hopefully at least some of them figured out their father or grandfather was a con artist.

Ryrie began his academic career by teaching one summer for Midwest Bible and Missionary Institute (which would eventually become a part of Calvary Bible College).[8] Ryrie joined the faculty of Westmont College in 1948 and eventually became dean of men and chairman of the Department of Biblical Studies and Philosophy. He returned to Dallas Theological Seminary in 1953 to teach systematic theology, but left for several years to serve as president of Philadelphia College of the Bible (now Cairn University), from 1958 to 1962.[5] He was also an adjunct faculty member from Fall 1991 through Fall 2001.[citation needed] Upon returning to Dallas once again, he became dean of doctoral studies until his retirement in 1983.[5] Ryrie has written 32 books which have sold more than 1.5 million copies.[9] Additionally, his study bible has sold more than 2.6 million copies.[10] Ryrie was an avid collector of quality rare Bibles and Bible manuscripts. On December 5, 2016, his collection was sold by Sothebys for 7.3 Million USD.[11] A 15th century copy of a Wycliffe’s Bible New Testament sold for $1,620,500 at auction.[12]  I can’t imagine anyone being so obsessed with a single collection of religious writings from a single culture. There is so much more in the real world for us to learn from and appreciate!

Ryrie died on February 16, 2016 in Dallas, Texas. Good riddance! By now he must be profoundly disappointed in his (lack of) afterlife.

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As a Christian in my teens, I did have a Ryrie Study Bible, and it looked like this:

51-R5IxDYpL._SX339_BO1,204,203,200_

 

I no longer have it and I don’t even remember what happened to it, but if I had not lost it after my deconversion……

….I would have physically DESTROYED it as the worthless garbage it really is!