It’s been known for years that both DavidBinOwen and Wahid Azal have been “ban evaders” in reddit, meaning they would create many sockpuppet accounts to try to infiltrate and disrupt the discussions in r/exbahai long after they were banned from it. These have been documented on the following blog entries:
Recently, Wahid has been making many, many, MANY accounts for the purpose of harassment of us.
We first noticed this here:
Ex-Baha’i Unitarian UniversalistAre you referring to the various Baha’i houses of worship that have been built around the world? They are indeed known to have nine sides to them….a design that is impractical as hell.On a related note, I have yet to see arguments regarding the Bab or his teachings that make him look any more credible or appealing than, say, Adolph Hitler or Charles Manson. I mean, they had followers and became world famous, with scholars researching their supposed mental states and their rises and downfalls, but beyond that, who cares? They’re both dead and their perverted movements should have died with them, obviously. Good riddance.
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SayfAllahQuddusiyah
One day, God willing, we will say this very thing about America and its faux-liberalism which built itself atop slavery, genocide of natives, resource theft, white supremacy, and the death of millions around the world.
The Primal Point and His relevance will outlive the dominance of you arrogant white liberal Anglo-American honkies. Take it to the bank!
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Seeker_Alpha1701
Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring
Of course, I’m not falling for that crap.
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SayfAllahQuddusiyah
No redd herring there. A statement of fact. Get your logical fallacies right without recourse to wackopedia.
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The Bab was mentally ill. Almost everything he wrote was strange. Even Baha’i scholars find it incomprehensible.
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SayfAllahQuddusiyah
Only two types of people make such a statement: 1) Shiite seminarians and/or IR regime apologists and 2) biased individuals with no knowledge of either classical Arabic or 1200 years of Islamic literary developments. If your understanding of the Bab was filtered through warped Baha’i lenses that is no reflection on actual facts. If your understanding of the Bab is filtered through biased Shiite establishmentarian lenses that is no reflection on the facts either. Scholars such as E.G. Browne, A-L-M Nicolas, Arthur Gobinueau, Todd Lawson, Denis MacEoin, Stephan Lambden, etc, were and are all fascinated by him and have spent a considerable period of their lives studying Him and the writings He composed in only a 6 year period. For an Englishman and then a Frenchman to learn classical Arabic and Persian – such as Browne and Nicolas – in order to get access to the Bab’s writings in the original says your observation is ignorant, way off, totally misplaced, and is no reflection on any facts. For a Frenchman like Nicolas to meticulously translate several of the Bab’s major works over a 30-year period, says the Bab’s works have deep appeal – and far more than the mediocrities of Haba’. Those who find Him strange do so because they have not the slightest comprehension of the deep mysticism behind it, or otherwise possess an ideological axe to grind, such as the mullahs and their supporters. Furthermore, if everything He wrote was strange, as you say, thousands wouldn’t have been galvanized to take up arms in His name against the corrupt and parasitic Qajar state, aristocracy and clergy which you regularly like to defend in a typically knee-jerk reactionary, rightwing British kind of way.
As for the charge of mental illness: an Irish doctor in the employ of the British legation found no such evidence. Nevertheless it is a common tactic of slander and defamation normalized specifically by the Anglo-Saxon – who themselves are the greatest psychotic sociopaths and murderers history has ever witnessed – to dismiss a figure such as the Bab or similar with the label as a smokescreen in order not to have to address matters or deal with serious issues.
I double this.
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SayfAllahQuddusiyah
Of course you would. I say the Ayatollah Khomeini was a dangerous clinical sociopath and bloodthirsty psychotic that the Pahlavis should’ve executed when they had the chance. The memories of his lifelong student Ayatollah Montazeri and others confirms it. I also say that Khamenei and his son Mojtaba are likewise dangerous clinical sociopaths and criminal psychotics, and that any Iranian who puts them away is a literal Kaveh, the Blacksmith, of the times. What do you say to that?
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I couldnt care less. Regardless, the Bab was mentaly ill.
And you are a cyber-basiji in the employ of the cyber-army of the IRI. Moreover, you are not an Iranian as your style of written Persian proves (where you are also denounced by other Iranians for being a shill):
This by you below is also not any formal or idiomatic style of composition in Persian:
دهنتو ببند حرف اضافی نزن
آخر توهمین شماها. نفهم میگم اینجا اینترنت اوکی بوده خودم داشتم با اینترنت کار می کردم آخرش میای فحش ناموس بدی که توهمتو قالب کنی به من.
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You are obviously either a Pakistani or Indian, and no Iranian.
كثافت سگ بسيجى
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Using Google Translate, the Persian passages read in English:
Shut your mouth, don’t talk too much.
The end of your illusions. I don’t understand, the internet is ok here. I was working with the internet myself. Finally, you come to insult me and cast your illusion on me.
Basiji dog litter
Looks like real Persian words to me. Also, what would be the point of anyone NOT an Iranian serving the intelligence agencies of Iran by moderating a subreddit against the Baha’i Faith and defending Iran all over the place? Instead of, you know, serving his own country?
Also, I have lived in Texas all my life, but I have never spoken with a “Texan” accent (which is actually a myth, BTW). Azal’s claim against investigator919 is like someone saying I have no right to be called a Texan because I don’t speak a certain way. Since Azal lives in Australia and not Iran, his claim is just bullshit. He doesn’t know any more about how present day Iranians use Persian than I do.
Burying the believer in a crystal coffin is interesting. I’m not sure how one would acquire the funds to do that unless the person was already wealthy to begin with. I think there is another one that says a non-Babi spouse is to have all of their possessions stolen by their Babi partner if they don’t convert to the religion.
I think a lot of the Babi Laws were meant to be symbolic to some degree. Given that we are so used to the Baha’i organization doing everything it can to distance itself from its Islamic roots, it is easy to forget that the Babi religion was founded during a time of “spiritual mania”. I think the Bab felt like he had to sound “tough” to stand up to people who would try to bully and persecute his followers, but that’s just my speculation.
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SayfAllahQuddusiyah
No such law in the Bayan. You have confused Haba’s law in the aqdas that non-Baha’i family do not inherit with another law in the Bayan. The Bayan instead says that non-believers are to be disenfranchised of their property under a Bayani state/kingdom unless they convert because only believers in the Bayan are to reside in a Bayani state/kingdom (which is only inclusive of the five provinces constituting Iran and Iraq). At the same time it makes it a sin to dispossess any individual of their home or place of residence and prohibits forced conversions to the Bayan.
And, no, none of these laws were meant to be symbolic. Symbolic of what, exactly?
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So I went after him:
Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist
I think he is lying to you, not correcting.
In 2017, I did a critical analysis of the Kitab-i-Aqdas from start to finish. The part dealing with inheritance was explored here:
https://dalehusband.com/2017/08/28/a-critical-analysis-of-the-kitab-i-aqdas-part-two/
Here is everything the Aqdas says about inheritance:
We have divided inheritance into seven categories: to the children, We have allotted nine parts comprising five hundred and forty shares; to the wife, eight parts comprising four hundred and eighty shares; to the father, seven parts comprising four hundred and twenty shares; to the mother, six parts comprising three hundred and sixty shares; to the brothers, five parts or three hundred shares; to the sisters, four parts or two hundred and forty shares; and to the teachers, three parts or one hundred and eighty shares. Such was the ordinance of My Forerunner, He Who extolleth My Name in the night season and at the break of day. When We heard the clamor of the children as yet unborn, We doubled their share and decreased those of the rest. He, of a truth, hath power to ordain whatsoever He desireth, and He doeth as He pleaseth by virtue of His sovereign might.
Should the deceased leave no offspring, their share shall revert to the House of Justice, to be expended by the Trustees of the All-Merciful on the orphaned and widowed, and on whatsoever will bring benefit to the generality of the people, that all may give thanks unto their Lord, the All-Gracious, the Pardoner.
Should the deceased leave offspring, but none of the other categories of heirs that have been specified in the Book, they shall receive two-thirds of the inheritance and the remaining third shall revert to the House of Justice. Such is the command which hath been given, in majesty and glory, by Him Who is the All-Possessing, the Most High.
If the deceased should leave none of the specified heirs, but have among his relatives nephews and nieces, whether on his brother’s or his sister’s side, two-thirds of the inheritance shall pass to them; or, lacking these, to his uncles and aunts on both his father’s and his mother’s side, and after them to their sons and daughters. The remaining third of the inheritance shall, in any case, revert to the Seat of Justice. Thus hath it been laid down in the Book by Him Who ruleth over all men.
Should the deceased be survived by none of those whose names have been recorded by the Pen of the Most High, his estate shall, in its entirety, revert to the aforementioned Seat that it may be expended on that which is prescribed by God. He, verily, is the Ordainer, the Omnipotent.
We have assigned the residence and personal clothing of the deceased to the male, not female, offspring, nor to the other heirs. He, verily, is the Munificent, the All-Bountiful.
Should the son of the deceased have passed away in the days of his father and have left children, they will inherit their father’s share, as prescribed in the Book of God. Divide ye their share amongst them with perfect justice. Thus have the billows of the Ocean of Utterance surged, casting forth the pearls of the laws decreed by the Lord of all mankind.
If the deceased should leave children who are under age, their share of the inheritance must be entrusted to a reliable individual, or to a company, that it may be invested on their behalf in trade and business until they come of age. The trustee should be assigned a due share of the profit that hath accrued to it from being thus employed.
Division of the estate should take place only after the Ḥuqúqu’lláh hath been paid, any debts have been settled, the expenses of the funeral and burial defrayed, and such provision made that the deceased may be carried to his resting-place with dignity and honor. Thus hath it been ordained by Him Who is Lord of the beginning and the end.
There is a lot to criticize, but the specific reference to “that non-Baha’i family do not inherit” is not one of them…..indeed, I found no such distinction anywhere in the Aqdas, or I would have commented on it somewhere in my blog entry series on the subject. Here is the entire list:
https://dalehusband.com/bahai-writings-criticism/
Meanwhile we have this from the con artist above.
No such law in the Bayan……..The Bayan instead says that non-believers are to be disenfranchised of their property under a Bayani state/kingdom unless they convert because only believers in the Bayan are to reside in a Bayani state/kingdom (which is only inclusive of the five provinces constituting Iran and Iraq).
Which is a distinction without a difference. Much like saying the Bayan does not command the destruction of books but does call for them to be erased. Really?
So this dingbat opposes the tyranny of the Islamic Republic of Iran and even the corrupt democracy of the USA, but thinks a Bayani republic that denies non-Babis the right to own property and censors non-Babi books is acceptable?!
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Later:
agnostic exBaha’iThat Babi’s were forbidden to ask questions, his edicts to burn all non-religious books, that believers should give him priceless gifts…
SayfAllahQuddusiyah
No such law, and given the massive amount of literary output by the Bab in only a 6 short year period, this decisively proves that He never forbade questions. What He specifically forbade was asking “why” (lima) and “wherefore” (bima) of He whom God shall make Manifest when He appears, i.e. interrogating Him, and this ordinance exists due to the bitter personal experience of the Bab when He arrived in Bushire from the hajj and subsequently when under custody because the subtext of this ordinance is not to treat He whom God shall make Manifest the way the Shi’ite mullahs and their supporters treated Him. Contrary to the mullahs who regularly practiced book burning (as they still do), especially of the writings of their rivals and critics, there is no law in the Bayan to burn non-religious books or books or any written material of any kind. In fact the very opposite. The effacement or destruction of any written material is explicitly forbidden in the Bayan per gate 13 of the 9th Unity:
أنتم أبدا كتابا لا تخرقون
“You are not to destroy any book [or any piece of writing, since in Arabic kitab/book in the accusative and indefinite case can refer to a book or any other piece of written material] under any circumstance!”
https://bayanic.com/lib/fwd/ABayan/ABayan-FWD.html
The claim originates with Haba’ and his son which has been uncritically repeated by the Shiite mullahs and their supporters (like u/Investigator919), and now clueless and confused secular Anglo-European ex-Bahais as well. So either no such law exists in the Bayan and the Baha’i founder and his son lied – as the textual evidence explicitly proves – or there is confusion about two different laws. In the 6th gate of the 6th Unity of the Bayan, the Bab says to efface all previous scriptures; meaning, to cease allowing the scriptural books of previous dispensations to act in any form as a centerpiece in a subsequent dispensation, which He explicitly glosses as such in the Persian Bayan. However, this has nothing to do with the physical destruction of any book or scriptural text, not to mention it explicitly echoes a verse of the Qur’an (13:39):
يَمْحُو اللَّهُ مَا يَشَاءُ وَيُثْبِتُ ۖ وَعِندَهُ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ
God effaces what He/It wills and establishes/confirms [what He/It wills]! And with It/Him is the Mother of the Book!
As well as the second theophanic sequence of the hadith kumayl (which acts as a proof-text to everything the Bab contextualizes):
محو الموهوم و صحو المعلوم
The effacement of supposition/conjecture and the realization of the Known!
As matter of fact, even though Abbas Effendi propagated this slur of Babi book burning, it was in fact Baha’is who went out of their way around the world to destroy and/or efface copies of the Leiden edition of nuqtat’ul-kaf by E.G. Browne when it was published. Abbas Effendi even ordered the Baha’is to do so. In fact, I know of Baha’is in the past 30 years who went around public libraries throughout the United States and effaced or stole from shelves and then destroyed copies of William M. Miller’s The Baha’i Faith: Its History and Teachings. So the destruction of books is in fact a practice literally engaged in by Baha’is themselves.
As for giving priceless gifts to the Point: again, this ordinance relates to He whom God shall make Manifest, and what exactly the problem is with this ordinance, is anyone’s guess.
What a ridiculous load of mental gymnastics!
First:
given the massive amount of literary output by the Bab in only a 6 short year period, this decisively proves that He never forbade questions.
That’s actually a non sequitur. Someone could write a dozen novels and yet never respond to a single letter written to him by a fan of his writing.
The claim originates with [Baha’u’llah] and his son which has been uncritically repeated by the Shiite mullahs and their supporters (like u/Investigator919), and now clueless and confused secular Anglo-European ex-Bahais as well. So either no such law exists in the Bayan and the Baha’i founder and his son lied – as the textual evidence explicitly proves – or there is confusion about two different laws.
This is also nonsense. I would later show exactly why.
The idea that Baha’u’llah so blatantly lied about the Bayan to justify abrogating it doesn’t hold up for one simple reason: In Baha’u’llah’s time, nearly all the Baha’is were former Bayanis and thus they would have had access to the Bayan to see if there were such laws for Baha’u’llah to abrogate. There would have been no need for Baha’u’llah to abrogate anything from the Bayan if those laws were anything reasonable like that claimed above. Baha’u’llah was engaging in one form of “damage control”, while the lying commenter was doing another form, but both should be rejected.
It’s a bit like a neo-Nazi claiming today, “Hitler never wanted to exterminate the Jews; he just wanted them out of Europe.” So what the fuck were all those concentration camps for?!
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Neither Gomer, Interrogator919 and their alter ego SuccessfulCorner2512 or MirzaIRI_Jan appear to read classical Arabic (or French, for that matter) and so rely on either garbled English translations by Peter Terry (from Nicolas’ original French) or material put out by IRI outfits or material by MacEoin and others, but deliberately taken out of context. However, I have offered links to the text of the Arabic Bayan itself:
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The autograph in the hand of the Bab Himself: https://www.academia.edu/36798591/Codex_Arabic_Bay%C4%81n_pdf
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The Azali lithograph edition from the autograph (whose editor’s preamble was translated by me from Persian to English for Bayanic.com): https://bayanic.com/lib/fwd/ABayan/ABayan-FWD.html
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The INBA 43 text (a Baha’i publication): https://www.h-net.org/~bahai/diglib/INBA/INBA043.pdf
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Muslim anti-Babi polemicist `Abd al-Razzaq al-Hasani’s typescript edition: https://www.h-net.org/~bahai/areprint/bab/A-F/b/bayana/bayana.htm
Those who assert must prove! So Gomer and his IRI handlers must prove on the prima facie evidence of the text of the Arabic Bayan itself that 1) the Bayan commands book burning, 2) that the Bayan commands building 9-sided houses, 3) that the Bayan disallows the asking of questions and 4) that the Bayan commands that priceless gifts be given to the Bab. I have already proven 1) to be a lie since the 13the gate of the 9th Unity clearly states:
أنتم أبدا كتابا لا تخرقون
“You are not to destroy anybookwhatsoever/under any circumstance!”
https://bayanic.com/lib/fwd/ABayan/ABayan-FWD.html
* Or any piece of writing, since in Arabic kitab/book in the accusative and indefinite case can refer to a book or any other piece of written material.
Gomer and his IR handlers have skirted around this question for 4 straight years without ever offering a single piece of credible evidence or rebuttal. Instead, like the professional propagandists and gaslighting censors that they are, they have dug in their heels every time and continued to repeat themselves with the same inane talking points as before over and over again.
Finally, I will go on record and say that the clear evidence proves Interrogator919 to be a dyed in the wool and classic Shi’ite Muslim fundamentalist anti-Babi BIGOT and his sock-puppet Gomer a textbook SOCIOPATH for actually following this person. I have proven my case and the facts speak for themselves. Gomer has once again proven himself as a know-nothing and arrogant Pyle-of-Merde!
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But I wasn’t going to let that con artist off the hook! Looking through all those links, I expected to find an English version of the Bayan from a reputable scholar that would confirm Azal’s claims. Instead, I only found Arabic copies of pages of the Bayan with no translations and therefore NO way for a skeptic like me to verify anything Azal was saying. I knew then that I was merely being set up for more verbal abuse.
Ex-Baha’i Unitarian UniversalistAnd…..every link in that comment above leads to NOTHING that supports your claims…..and yes, I clicked on all four of them. So you fail yet again to prove anything.Again, if it is true that Baha’u’llah so blatantly misrepresented the Bayan in the Kitab-i-Aqdas, then he should have lost nearly all his followers after the latter book came out. Imagine if Jesus said, “my followers need no longer obey the Torah’s commandment to circumcise newborn boys.” Would it have been reasonable for a Jew to say, “There is no such law in the Torah, Moses has been misquoted”? Jesus himself would simply crack open the Torah, point to the actual references in question, and thus prove the Jew a liar. The only way your claims make sense is if the Bayanis and Baha’is in Baha’u’llah’s time did not have any copies of the Bayan to confirm what Baha’u’llah taught. If they didn’t, why the hell did the Bab write it for, if not for his followers to read and obey?Ironically, it is exactly because most of us here don’t know Arabic that you thought you could fool us with your lies. You really need to give up this useless game…..you simply can’t win because reality doesn’t agree with you.
Ex-Baha’i Unitarian UniversalistWhy would Baha’u’llah abrogate laws of the Bayan that never existed? Why didn’t Sub-i-Azal take advantage of the situation to completely discredit his brother and prove once and for all that he was right? You can’t answer that, can you?I don’t tolerate it when Baha’i “historians” like Adib Taherzadeh publish made up shit that they insist is true, so why should YOU be given a free pass?
Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist
You keep forgetting that I am an atheist with no loyalty to Iran. I, MirzaJan and investigator919 all oppose the Baha’i Faith, so we are partners in that. And we thought you were one too. Instead, you betrayed us with lies and backstabbing.
But we also know that it all started with the Bab and IT SHOULD HAVE ENDED WITH HIM in 1850. It was Baha’u’llah who revived the Babi community and then replaced the Bab’s teachings with his own. He never would have been able to do that if the former Bayanis rejected him for lying about the Bayan and turned instead to Sub-i-Azal. You know this. The surest way to discredit the Baha’i Faith is to strike at its very root. Which is the Bab, since Baha’u’llah was once his follower.
The Bab claimed to be the return of the Mahdi. TRUE OR FALSE?
The Shias expected the Mahdi to overthrow the enemies of Islam. TRUE OR FALSE?
The Bab was gunned down in 1850 after his followers were defeated in battle. TRUE OR FALSE?
If I am to EVER believe in the Bab and the Bayani teachings, then at least ONE of those premises must be established as FALSE. SO WHICH IS IT?
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Indeed, the Primal Point declared Himself the Qaim and Mahdi.
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What the Shias expected is not necessarily what the prophecies say or what they even mean, especially in light of the central Shiite doctrine of al-bada’ (the alteration of the divine plans) which is also a core doctrine of the Bayan itself.
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The Primal Point was indeed martyred and the early believers of the Bayan massacred by the combined state-clergy pogrom unleashed against them. But those who survived went on to actively work against the Qajar dynasty which they overthrew in the early 20th century. The destruction of the power of the Shiite clergy is still a work in progress and is now starting to bear fruit, and we will succeed in permanently cutting the power of those tyre-heads and their allies to size for good! When we do, the Babi Revolution will be complete.
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Why would Baha’u’llah abrogate laws of the Bayan that never existed?
Simple, because he was anti-Bayani all along as the evidence of Avarih in the first volume of his Kashfúl-Hil unequivocally proved: Haba’ denounced the Bab at his interrogation in the presence Mirza Agha Khan Nuri (a distant kinsman and the prime minister of Iran at the time) after the failed assassination on Nasiruddin Shah in the summer of 1852 (Avarih quotes directly from government archives of the interrogation). Second, because at the time the complete Bayani corpus was few and far between and in the hands of a very few people (because if these texts were ever found by authorities, they would be destroyed and the person in whose possession they were, killed), even well into the 1890s. So Haba’ took advantage of this situation and said whatever he wanted to say about the Bayan – and did! Why do you think E.G. Browne amassed so many Babi texts and catalogued them with Cambridge University? Because otherwise this history would have probably been lost given that both fundamentalist Shi’ites and Baha’is went out of their way to try to destroy it.
Why didn’t Sub-i-Azal take advantage of the situation to completely discredit his brother and prove once and for all that he was right?
He did! In tome after tome after tome of text – and he wasn’t the only one. Your problem is that you cannot access any of this material and have such a partial grasp of the historiography and texts that it is not even worth anyone’s time to teach you anything, nor have you demonstrated any interest in learning anything since your logic appears to be based on confirmation bias. In that respect, atheist or not, you are exactly like the Baha’is or fundamentalist Shi’ites.
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I was getting close to nailing that fraud, so I kept up the pressure.
Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist
[[[Haba’ denounced the Bab at his interrogation in the presence Mirza Agha Khan Nuri (a distant kinsman and the prime minister of Iran at the time) after the failed assassination on Nasiruddin Shah]]]
Aren’t Shias allowed to deny their own beliefs in public to avoid persecution? Appearantly that’s what Baha’u’llah did. Too bad it didn’t help him.
[[[In tome after tome after tome of text – and he wasn’t the only one.]]]
Then Sub-i-Azal should have won and there should be NO Baha’i Faith today. The Bayani Faith should be the world religion instead. He failed and therefore so must you!
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Aren’t Shias allowed to deny their own beliefs in public to avoid persecution? Appearantly that’s what Baha’u’llah did. Too bad it didn’t help him.Whatever. But the fact that he denounced the Point of the Bayan makes his entire claim disingenuous with him revealed as a complete asshole!Then Sub-i-Azal should have won and there should be NO Baha’i Faith today.Is this how you believe the world works? You aren’t really that naive as 50+ year old, are you? That the righteous prevail?! You got Donald Trump as president in 2016 – and may yet get him again in 2024 – in an election he actually lost in the popular vote (on top of Russian meddling). You got George W. Bush as president in an election in 2000 which he also lost to Al Gore. History is riddled with bad guys winning and prevailing over the good, and especially in the realm of religion and religious movements, like the example of Jesus himself or Imam Husayn (as) whom your handler claims to believe in.
[[[ My agenda is simply to set the record straight and take the Bayan out of the hands of bahais who have held it hostage and the misrepresentations of fundamentalist anti-Babi Shiites who have uncritically repeated canards originated by bahais.]]]
That’s nonsense! If the Shias have access to the Bayan, they don’t need any input from Baha’is, do they?
[[[1. Indeed, the Primal Point declared Himself the Qaim and Mahdi. 2. What the Shias expected is not necessarily what the prophecies say or what they even mean, especially in light of the central Shiite doctrine of al-bada’ (the alteration of the divine plans) which is also a core doctrine of the Bayan itself.]]]
Bada was also the same bullshit argument the Hands of the Cause of God used to justify the Baha’i community continuing without a Guardian after Shoghi Effendi died. So why aren’t you a Haifan Baha’i?
[[[3. The Primal Point was indeed martyred and the early believers of the Bayan massacred by the combined state-clergy pogrom unleashed against them. But those who survived went on to actively work against the Qajar dynasty which they overthrew in the early 20th century. The destruction of the power of the Shiite clergy is still a work in progress and is now starting to bear fruit, and we will succeed in permanently cutting the power of those tyre-heads and their allies to size for good! When we do, the Babi Revolution will be complete.]]]
You mean the SECULAR revolution. How can a Babi revolution happen in Iran when it’s just you representing the Babi cause?
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That’s nonsense! If the Shias have access to the Bayan, they don’t need any input from Baha’is, do they?
Then why do they keep repeating Baha’i arguments and citing Baha’i texts, and never the Bayan itself?
Bada was also the same bullshit argument the Hands of the Cause of God used to justify the Baha’i community continuing without a Guardian after Shoghi Effendi died. So why aren’t you a Haifan Baha’i?
Stupid argument. Again, al-Bada is a core Shi’ite doctrine and is confirmed in the Bayan. WTF does this have to do with being or not being a Haifan Bahai just because a bunch of self-appointed CEOs cited it in 1957? Lame.
You mean the SECULAR revolution. How can a Babi revolution happen in Iran when it’s just you representing the Babi cause?
No, I mean the Babi Revolution, since anti-clericalism in Iran began with us. What outer form it solidifies as when it fructifies is secondary. We began the whole thing. The end of the mullahs will be our ship finally brought to port. QED
Right……but what if the secular republic that replaces the Islamic state legalizes the Baha’i Faith? Azal would go ballistic over that! LOL!
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Ex-Baha’i Unitarian Universalist[[[Then why do they keep repeating Baha’i arguments and citing Baha’i texts, and never the Bayan itself?]]]
investigator919
Since most if not all the readers of this sub do not understand Arabic or Persian, without delving into the semantics, it suffices to say both translations literally agree on one thing: were the Bab come to power books and writings would only be limited to what the Bab said or approved. Good luck promoting these beliefs.
“Chapter six of the sixth unit which is about destroying all books but those that have been written or will be written about this Order (meaning the Bab’s creed). (The Bāb, Farsi Bayān, unit 6, chap. 6.)”
The sixth gate of the Sixth Unity. Regarding the ordinance [ḥukm] of the erasure [maḥw] of all books, all of them, except what has emerged or will arise in this Cause.
[[[Stupid argument. Again, al-Bada is a core Shi’ite doctrine and is confirmed in the Bayan. WTF does this have to do with being or not being a Haifan Bahai just because a bunch of self-appointed CEOs cited it in 1957? Lame.]]]
It just illustrates your inconsistency…….You accept Bada when it suits you and reject it when it doesn’t. I deny Bada in ALL its versions. If there are ANY contradictions in the teachings of a religion, IT IS NOT TRUE!
[[What would have resolved the debate in his favor would be an English translation of the Bayan made by a scholar such as Edward Granville Browne that states exactly what Azal claims.]]
I assumed there WERE such translations already, so why did you not present one of them instead? You didn’t, so I concluded you were just playing mind games all along. Because you did that to us before, of course.
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Ex-Baha’i Unitarian UniversalistSo first the con artist says:[[[One day, God willing, we will say this very thing about America and its faux-liberalism which built itself atop slavery, genocide of natives, resource theft, white supremacy, and the death of millions around the world.The Primal Point and His relevance will outlive the dominance of you arrogant white liberal Anglo-American honkies. Take it to the bank!]]]And then:[[[The destruction of the power of the Shiite clergy is still a work in progress and is now starting to bear fruit, and we will succeed in permanently cutting the power of those tyre-heads and their allies to size for good! When we do, the Babi Revolution will be complete.]]]But later:[[[Is this how you believe the world works? You aren’t really that naive as 50+ year old, are you? That the righteous prevail?! You got Donald Trump as president in 2016 – and may yet get him again in 2024 – in an election he actually lost in the popular vote (on top of Russian meddling). You got George W. Bush as president in an election in 2000 which he also lost to Al Gore. History is riddled with bad guys winning and prevailing over the good, and especially in the realm of religion and religious movements, like the example of Jesus himself or Imam Husayn (as) whom your handler claims to believe in.]]]You keep changing rhetorical tactics to keep propping up your bullshit long after you should have given up!Indeed, this is EXACTLY the sort of mental gymnastics I have always hated seeing from Baha’i’s like DBO, Christian apologists, and others in religion and politics that are such GODDAMN HYPOCRITES IN PUBLIC, because their inconsistent religious or political dogmatism enables the behavior they want to get away with. And the whole point of debating with Wacki Azoo for so long was to expose him for what he is, no better than all those other assholes in this messed up world!
Dale Husband's Intellectual Rants 
Someone tried to make a comment here, but I rejected it. I already know that NOTHING Wacki Azoo says can save his credibility at this point. I was playing with him like a cat might with a mouse before finally killing it. I knew from the start that he would be totally faithless in the discussions.
You know the funniest thing about all this? The actual laws of the Bayan that he and I were arguing about were in the PERSIAN Bayan, so why the fuk would he bother linking to copies of the ARABIC Bayan? That’s actually a different book!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Bay%C3%A1n. (Has a section of laws)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_Bay%C3%A1n. (Has no such section)
An episode of Beavis and Butt-head has more intelligence than that lunatic!
Shortly after I posted that:
Gee, I wasn’t aware that enforcing reddit rules and demanding that trolls stay away because they cause trouble repeatedly is racist.