I have much less interest in attacking Islam than I do Christianity or the Baha’i Faith, because I have never been a Muslim. But I do not discriminate. Just as I have condemned “DavidBinOwen” for his cyberstalking me and even invading the ExBahai subreddit in the past, so I won’t stand for a Muslim invading the ExMuslim subreddit.
Look at this:
I will try to keep this as short as possible and easy to read. Hope you enjoy reading it. And if you are a Muslim, please, I do not not your apologetics in the replies, I’ve had enough of that for the past 6 months!
Due to the spring lockdown in England, this Ramadan, I (19 m) promised myself that I would read the Quran with English translation, cover to cover, for the first time. Although I had read the Quran in Arabic several times in the madrassah, I never actually knew what most of it meant as I am a Brit- Pakistani and Urdu is my native language. I choose to read the Yusuf Ali translation as it was apparently the most accurate one. First 20 verses into Surah al Baqarah and I was extremely confused, especially by this verse. I kept on reading and it got to the point where the Quran would jump from one story to another and sometimes some verses would not fit the context of their surrounding verses. It was all over the place, so I was told by my friend to use “Tafsir” (interpretations) if anything does not make sense. He probably shouldn’t have sent my that. I finished reading the whole thing by the 25th of Ramadan.
My first thoughts on the Quran
Shocked. It was an awful read. That’s all I could think about and I was extremely angry on myself for thinking that way about the book of Allah. The concepts of slavery, sex slavery, cutting off hands, killing the polytheists etc. were really bothering me. I didn’t tell my friend about this as I thought he’d probably be very upset with my views on the Quran. So, I started digging up these issues on Islamic websites and on YouTube. Farid Respond, Muhammad Hijab, Ali Dawah, Zakir Naik, Adnan Rashid, Yasir Qadih, Mufti Abu Layth etc. were making videos, clarifying doubts on some controversial verses in the Quran, so I was relieved to know that I wasn’t the only one who had issues with these verses. And the responses were along the lines of: “you don’t know classical Arabic”, “out of context”, “mistranslation”, “different times back then”, “so what” etc., you get the point. Sometimes they would completely change the meaning of the word to fit it into the modern context, when tafsirs and early translations said the complete opposite. Child marriage for example, the early and most reliable tafsirs clearly states that 65:4 was for child marriage and not for “old age”. This was clear dishonesty from Muslim apologists and I began to wonder if I can trust these people.
First Doubts and realising I can no longer be Muslim
After Eid ul Fitr, I started to research Muhammad’s life. I was still a Muslim at this point. I had done a bit of Seerah in madrassah so I knew that he was a merchant in Mecca, prayed in cave of Hira, Jibril appeared to him and gave him verses of the Quran every now and then, Hijrah to Medinah etc. So while looking his life up on Google, I came across a YouTuber named The MaskedArab and HOLY SHIT. I didn’t know what to think of Muhammad after watching his videos. He was referencing all his sources and all of them were of the highest authority. Muslim apologists were trying to respond him but I was shocked how all they said was “ex- Muslims are doing it for attention” or he’s a “fake ex-Muslim”. NO ONE was actually addressing the point as to why Muhammad raped, killed, kept captives, kept slaves, massacred a tribe including children and ordered killings of people. And my madrassah teacher had the audacity to teach me that Muhammad was the most merciful man, despite studying all of the crimes Muhammad had committed? Really?? I have to put my trust on this man? Why? Because he said he saw an angel and now he’s allowed to marry or rape however many women he wants? 10 to 12 days after Ramadan and I accepted, without any hesitation that I can no longer identify myself as a Muslim nor put my trust on a barbarian like Muhammad. And with the France killings and the hypocrisy of Muslims, I can 100 % tell you that there is nothing divine about Islam.
I am lucky enough to have been born in the West and I’ll do my 100% to keep my future kids away from any religious influence. I see some of you here and feel very sorry for what Islam has done to your countries and culture. I really hope things will change for ex Muslims stuck in Muslim countries and they would be allowed in EU countries. I would personally like to help ex Muslims escape their Muslim countries in the future as well. Much love.
Thanks for reading.
There is a comment thread there that goes as follows:
Muhammad raped, killed, kept captives, kept slaves, massacred a tribe including children and ordered killings of people. And my madrassah teacher had the audacity to teach me that Muhammad was the most merciful man, despite studying all of the crimes Muhammad had committed?
Any authentic narrations or verses for your claims ?
Allowed rape- Sahih Muslim 8:3371
Raped Saffiyah bint Huyayy a day after killing her husband and father and also sells women from her tribe- Sahih Bukhari 1:8:367
Ordered a killing of an old lady who mocked him- Ibn Hisham & Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah page 675 676
Beheaded a tribe including children who had pubic hair- Sahih Bukhari 4:52:68, Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Quran 33:26-27
Kept slaves- Sahih Bukhari 3:43:648
These hadith and tafsirs have the highest level of authenticity. There’s apologetics but I don’t find it convincing. So don’t try it
Please copy paste these hadith as well, there is a chance that I reply to a different hadith since 2-3 showed up in my search .
Look mate. I appreciate what you’re trying to do and I like your spirit of defending your religion. And I’m sure you believe that I am taking everything out of context or misunderstanding it. But I didn’t come in this sub to have my views changed by the Yaqeen Institute or Islamic apologetic websites copy and paste, I’ve had a lot of that from the last few months. If I wanted that I would have gone r/Islam. I look at Muhammad a different way and you look at him in a different way. Let’s leave it there. This post is just my opinion and my views on Muhammad and I understand why you wouldn’t agree, as it wasn’t aimed at you. 👍
Oh no, I want to understand what you think that is why I am asking you to paste the hadith so that I can see as well , If I see logic and proof in it then I will agree with you, if not then I will give my 2 cents . Simple as that . Good for both for us . Please do paste the hadith .
But if you really want something, here. Again I understand that you won’t agree with any of those Hadith and it’s fine.
Paste the hadith to defend your claims then we can move forward .
Not interested. And as I said before as well, I haven’t written this post aimed at you. Good night.
Ok so just to be clear, you accuse the prophet (SAW) of being a barbaric person and don’t want to provide any proof for it . So this is more about your ignorance rather than logic and common sense . Good to know .
Killing people is barbaric and I won’t argue with you and any of your apologetics that I’ve seen 100s of times. You know the Hadith and stories I’m referring to, please don’t act like you don’t. And I’m sorry if you’re hurt.
Killing innocent people is barbaric. I’m not hurt , just amazed that you rather just accuse and spread hate about a man that is widely known through centuries to be the most perfect of a man and not provide proof for it while their are hundreds of authentic narrations that show us the prophet(SAW) mercy and perfect, beautiful character . I have encountered many like you but at the end they don’t reply and just give up and never provide proofs for their arguments .The “apologetics” probably just gave you logical evidence and common sense which you were to ignorant to accept . If you really believe your accusations are true, lets debate. If not, stop accusing .
You really can’t comprehend a few lines off my post, can you? No I will not give you anything. You know the massacres and killings as you are an apologist, I see. And no I don’t have to respect your favourite child raping caravan robber. Thanks. And if you’re so emotional that you won’t stop commenting then carry on😴😴
Oh no I understood from the second reply you gave that you are not a person of knowledge, rather just a boy that believe what he sees on the net and wants to have an excuse to follow a sinful life . I doubt you entire story, a true Muslim would have at least done some research if he/she encounters a verse or narration that bothers them ( been there ), but to go on lying just to seek attention, wrongfully accuse a man and not even have the slightest of knowledge to defend his claims is certainly a ignorant person . Your claims hold no weight till you provide proof to support them . Thankyou
Why are you unable/unwilling to read through the above? There are a great many hadiths posted there.
So I stepped in to defend the exMuslims.
I don’t know much about hadiths or whatever those things above are called, but I DO know that Muslims believe in Moses as a Messenger of God just as much as they believe in Muhammad. And according to the Bible, Moses DID commit acts that if done today would be condemned around the world as WAR CRIMES!
31 The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Avenge the people of Israel on the Midianites. Afterward you shall be gathered to your people.” 3 So Moses spoke to the people, saying, “Arm men from among you for the war, that they may go against Midian to execute the Lord‘s vengeance on Midian. 4 You shall send a thousand from each of the tribes of Israel to the war.” 5 So there were provided, out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand from each tribe, twelve thousand armed for war. 6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand from each tribe, together with Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, with the vessels of the sanctuary and the trumpets for the alarm in his hand. 7 They warred against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every male. 8 They killed the kings of Midian with the rest of their slain, Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba, the five kings of Midian. And they also killed Balaam the son of Beor with the sword. 9 And the people of Israel took captive the women of Midian and their little ones, and they took as plunder all their cattle, their flocks, and all their goods. 10 All their cities in the places where they lived, and all their encampments, they burned with fire, 11 and took all the spoil and all the plunder, both of man and of beast. 12 Then they brought the captives and the plunder and the spoil to Moses, and to Eleazar the priest, and to the congregation of the people of Israel, at the camp on the plains of Moab by the Jordan at Jericho.
13 Moses and Eleazar the priest and all the chiefs of the congregation went to meet them outside the camp. 14 And Moses was angry with the officers of the army, the commanders of thousands and the commanders of hundreds, who had come from service in the war. 15 Moses said to them, “Have you let all the women live? 16 Behold, these, on Balaam’s advice, caused the people of Israel to act treacherously against the Lord in the incident of Peor, and so the plague came among the congregation of the Lord. 17 Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. 18 But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves.
So I guess Muhammad was merely an Arab version of Moses?
you accuse the prophet (SAW) of being a barbaric person and don’t want to provide any proof for it .
Earlier YOU said:
a man [Muhammad] that is widely known through centuries to be the most perfect of a man …….. while their are hundreds of authentic narrations that show us the prophet(SAW) mercy and perfect, beautiful character
Strange that you don’t want to be held to the same standard you try to impose on this exMuslim. So……
SHOW US THE PROOF THAT MUHAMMAD HAD A PERFECT AND BEAUTIFUL CHARACTER! Show us dozens and dozens and dozens more of these “authentic narrations” you only made vague references to.