I got into a debate over religion in a Care2 group that is specialized for such things. Based on some of my writings here, its easy for one to conclude that I despise all Christians and regard them as idiots. But in fact I never paint any group of people with the same brush. What’s my REAL problem with some religious people?

http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=4646&pst=746519&archival=&posts=71

Michael O: I believe with all my heart if you are not saved you will not go to heaven. You must love one and hate the other God or Satan. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son Jesus to die for our sins. That who soever believeth in him should not perish but should have ever lasting life. If you accept Jesus as your Savior and ask him to forgive your sins. And believe God sent Jesus to die for us and through his blood shed we can be born again. You will believe when you get back up from praying if you give your whole heart to God. When the Holy Spirit comes in to your life you will know by the Spirit of God the truth. Amen

Huh? The topic was child preachers! Why was this guy trying to drag the discussion off-topic? Unfortunately, he succeeded! He also sent me an invitation to a Christian dominated group he runs, which I angrily rejected.

Dale Husband: Micheal O believes in certain things, but he can never prove them, which is why Christianity is one among many religions. There are very good reasons why one would follow another religion, or even no religion, based on their own experiences in life. The case for Christianity is as full of holes as swiss cheese, and those who claim otherwise via books or pamplets displaying “apologetics” are either badly deluded or outright lying. And Micheal O, please do not send me another invite to your Christian group! I would not insult you by inviting you to an atheist group!

Then another Christian showed up, one who I was a close friend of.

Sally H: There are also very good reasons why one would follow Christianity, based on one’s life experiences.  Michael never said he had proof.

Seeing her defending her faith, I immediately switched from “attack mode” to “tolerance mode”. That was because her friendship with me was more important than I continuing to slam her faith.

Dale Husband: True, Sally. It’s just the arrogance I see from so many Christians that upsets me. Thankfully, many of them, like yourself, are also humble and more respectful of others. For that, I am always thankful.

Sally H: Dale, I don’t think arrogance respects establishments of religion!  There are arrogant people of all faiths and none.

Dale Husband: Sally, again, you speak the truth.

But Micheal O didn’t seem to take the hint!

Michael O: When I stepped out in Faith and accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior. Believe me, The Holy Spirit, God sent to me, made me a different person. If you had ever experienced the Power of God coming down and taking over your whole body. Then you would believe. But you wont believe because you know not Jehovah God. I know they are many beliefs. But which belief is from Jehovah God, the God of Adam and Eve? The God of Abraham. Where we all came from. I have more than belief, I have experienced the Power from God on high. God is love, when God gives you the fruit of the Spirit. You will know the truth. I believe everyone should seek God for the truth not man made religions. The only way I know is through God his inspired word. The KJV Bible. But they are many Bibles. I have read some of the Torah, what Jesus taught. The difference I see is they don’t believe God sent his only begotten son Jesus in to the world to die for their sins. That one reason they have had such a hard life and every nation in the middle east wanting them to vanished. But God will protect them no matter what. They are his chosen people, Jesus came to his own and his own received him not.
I never wish to offend no one but what God has given me no one can take away. If you seek God for the truth, then you will know whats the truth. Dont never be afraid to seek God for the truth and never take no mans belief or religions for the truth. God will show the truth to who ever seeks him.

Dale Husband: Oh, and it does not occur to some of you Christians that Jews, Muslims, and others may feel just as validated by their faiths as you do? Jews say they follow the same religion as their ancestors and don’t accept Christianity because it seems to be more pagan than Jewish in nature. Muslims say they follow the original religion of Abraham, even more than Jews do. And atheists argue against ALL religions, based on the flawed natures they see in them. You may “feel” that your religion is good for you, but that does NOT make it the absolute truth for everyone else, or even you, for that matter. As for me, I’m only interested in facts.

Micheal O: I don’t understand any one that says they don’t believe in God. For instant Atheist, where do they think we came from? A tree is still a tree and and ape is still an ape. God created all just the way he wonted it. I have seen and heard a lot of Atheist on their death bed call on God and ask God to save the soul. They must have believed in something. For God to lead them to him and saved their soul on their death bed. God will plant a seed, and some times it takes years to sprout.Thank God for that.That is wonderful God is love.

I pulled out of the discussion for a long time to deal with other matters. When I returned, I saw another friend of mine there, a Pagan named Ketutar.

Ketutar: About the Jesus weeping over that he has no followers anymore – so it is. But the religion was made impossible from the very beginning.
a) everyone is a sinner
b) being Christian means you CAN’T sin
that means, there ARE NO Christians… Sorry.

Dale Husband: And that, of course, leads Christians to say, “We are not perfect, just forgiven.” Well, Islam also teaches that Allah (God) is forgiving and merciful. At least with Islam no one has to die for another’s sin. Judaism also teaches this, so Islam is closer in spirit to the original Jewish religion than Christianity is!

Micheal O: And God calls who he chooses to preach the gospel young and older. Christians who say, thy can willful sin and be in a relation ship with God. Not true, at the best serving the Lord we will sin through our ignorance. We as children of God are to try our best not to sin. We need to ask God to forgive us of our sin each day. Serving God the best we know how. Our sins are covered under the blood of Jesus. If we have accepted him as our Savior. That don’t mean we can receive Christ and continue to sin and live a life like we did before. Not so! Serving God is to be dedicated in truth and in Spirit with God if you love him you will. Everyone who says Lord, Lord, don’t mean thy have been saved.  Dont knock Jesus if you haven’t tried him! Because you don’t know the truth about Jesus unless you have received him as your Savior. You must step out in Faith, and believe God sent Jesus in to the world to die for our sins. Once I repented and stepped out in faith and ask Jesus to save my soul. I gave my whole heart to God. Then I got back up of my knees a different person. Then I new the truth. How? By the Holy Spirit God gave me as a gift. for believing God. God his Holy Spirit, he gives us is also.
When the power of God comes down and gives us a blessing from on high. You will know the truth then! No one will ever know unless thy seek God. Step out in faith and repent asking God to save their soul. People who don’t believe, Satan has Blinded their Eyes and hearts. Seek ye the Lord why he may be found, call ye upon him why he is near. Read the word of God for your self. Take no mans word for nothing seek the truth for your self. God will show you the truth. Michael O.

I HATE IT WHEN SOMEONE TALKS A LOT BUT DOES NOT LISTEN!

Dale Husband: I did try Him when I was a teenager, and He failed me. End of story! You are too sure of yourself, Micheal O. You make unwarranted assumptions about those who disagree with you and you also project your own arrogance on God and Jesus and call that humility. I call it hypocrisy, which has no age limits. It is common knowledge that younger people tend to be far more foolish by nature than older ones. And extreme religious convictions only add to the foolishness, because it makes the youths think they already have all the knowledge they need.

And then he insults me AGAIN!

Michael O: Dale you say you tried Jesus when you was younger and Jesus failed you. Other people or the church might have failed you and let you down. Someone really has hurt you and let you down but not Jesus. If you had have given your heart to him and really did. Then you could not even say that. They have been lots of people say they have tried Jesus but they didn’t give their heart to him. You must not have found the love I found in Jesus or you could not say Jesus failed you.
Jesus has never failed no one. We might fail him but he will never fail us. I have failed Jesus my self many times but he has never failed me. We are living in a world of deception, Satan has blinded the eyes and hearts of the un believers. And if people listen to him and his fallen angels. Satan will lead them to his under world with him. We will all come forth from the grave to the Judgment of God. There is hope in Jesus Christ only. If we accept Jesus as our Savior and repent and believe in Gods only begotten Son Jesus who came to die for all man kinds sin. We can be set free in the Judgment of God, because Jesus who saves us will be there for us and our sins are under the blood all our sins forgiven. God bless amen

Once again, I was absent for a long time from the discussion. I returned to make one last statement.

Dale Husband: Micheal O, I have learned from experience to never again take seriously spiritual Daleks and Borg like yourself. You just repeat what you have been told to say, without proof, without any reasoning that would convince an honest skeptic. I bid you farewell, forever!

And that was it for me! But I think I’ll let Ketutar have the last word here, because she stated the matter in fewer words, but even better than I did!

Ketutar: Naturally I lack the “correct” understanding… I’m not Christian. But the idea that one would NEED a “correct” understanding to understand something… let’s leave it at that. I do understand what you are trying to say, I just disagree.