My battle with a Haifan Baha’i on YouTube

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Back in January of this year, I made a video on YouTube condemning the Baha’i Faith for its failings.

I expected some criticism, but most of it came across as incredibly stupid. Then came a more formidable opponent, Jim Murray.

Azim Moosavi
Dale Husband: Dale, if you say you want this to fail. Then you are saying that unity and humanity should fail am I correct?
Azim Moosavi
Dale Husband Dale, I have read your website. It has come to me that your website seems more based on your own opinion than reality and facts.
Dale Husband
We all have opinions, but those opinions should never be based on lies, including the lie you told above. The Baha’i Faith has already failed; it is not a matter of me wanting it to fail, it simply has! For every convert to the faith in recent times, at least one previously converted leaves. The community is not growing and never will unless and until it drastically reforms itself and starts being more honest.
Jim Murray
Actually, Dale Husband, the community is growing at quite a rapid pace currently. Perhaps not where you live, but overall. The Faith cannot fail, it is the expression of God’s Will for this age. It may be that you are one of those who imagine that this Faith was created and is controlled by some organization. There is no doubt that the Faith is considered a failure by many in the West because it does not cater to their quaint conceptions of democracy, liberality, and justice. “Weigh not the Book of God with such standards and sciences as are current amongst you, for the Book itself is the unerring balance established amongst men.” I don’t question what you want to believe, I just don’t understand why you don’t just walk away and get on with your life. Join a church or a synagogue. Find a girl. Get drunk. The Faith will not change. So stop trying to suggest it should.
Jim Murray
So…. given that a Baha’i is someone who accepts Baha’u’llah as the Manifestation of God’s Will for this day, and is obedient to everything He has written, I’m not really sure what you’re trying to accomplish here. Did any of this change His claim to be that Messenger, or alter His teachings? Or are you simply engaging in a self-righteous tantrum about not getting your way? If I decided I no longer accepted those two criteria, I would get on with my life instead of pouting all over the internet.
Jim Murray
I remember when I was a child, and many things that I didn’t understand caused me to fear for no reason. Often the fear itself created thoughts that added to the feelings. Needless to say, the fear also kept me from fully investigating the sources of my fears, and so I lived much of the time in a self-imposed world of delusion. Thank goodness that childhood eventually gives way to maturity, and you begin to understand that things are seldom what they seem, that they usually have a simple explanation, and you no longer need to live in fear. I wish that for everyone.
Jimmy Cardent
You will enjoy the discussions at: http://www.reddit.com/r/exbahai
Jim Murray
Almost every one of the comments at that link are from a curious type of people who are “joiners”. They see the progressive nature of the Baha’i teachings, and decide that it is some utopian democracy that must adhere to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. What most of these people need to do is contact their local mental health organization, and find some group that will coddle and cherish them, and cater to their whims. Not one of them has fulfilled the standard set by Baha’u’llah, which is to recognize Him as the Manifestation of God for this day, and accept and obey everything revealed by His pen. That is the Baha’i Faith. The Baha’i community, on the other hand, is a working model, a laboratory, whose purpose is for us to practice and learn. And how do we learn and grow as Baha’is? Yes, through suffering and adversity. Those people chose instead to bail, run into a corner and lick their wounds, and then fire cheap-shots on the safety of the internet. The only people they will influence are the same as they are. As Baha’u’llah Himself wrote: If thine aim be to cherish thy life, approach not our court; but if sacrifice be thy heart’s desire, come and let others come with thee. For such is the way of faith, if in thy heart thou seekest reunion with Bahá; shouldst thou refuse to tread this path, why trouble us? Begone! This is not a Cause which may be made a plaything for your idle fancies, nor is it a field for the foolish and faint of heart. By God, this is the arena of insight and detachment, of vision and upliftment, where none may spur on their chargers save the valiant horsemen of the Merciful, who have severed all attachment to the world of being. These, truly, are they that render God victorious on earth, and are the dawning-places of His sovereign might amidst  mankind.
Dale Husband
{{{They see the progressive nature of the Baha’i teachings, and decide that it is some utopian democracy that must adhere to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. What most of these people need to do is contact their local mental health organization, and find some group that will coddle and cherish them, and cater to their whims.}}}
My criticisms of the Baha’i Faith have nothing to do with the American form of government. And insulting people who reject the Faith when they find out what it is really about after being lied to about it is as contemptible as it gets. Why don’t YOU see a psychiatrist to find out why you are so attached to a religion that has so much nonsense in it that you would defend it in public in such a shameful manner?
Jim Murray
Someone lied to you about it? Really! I guess you decided the principle of the independent investigation of truth was optional, did you? Or did they hide that from you, too? And I guess you had no access to the books written by Baha’u’llah, is that right? What I’m defending is your right to admit that you made a mistake, and to move on with your life and do it right. I could just as easily say that the Anglican church “misled” me for sixteen years; do you see me slagging them on YouTube? But yeah, you’re so right, as usual; it’s my manner that is shameful, not yours.
Dale Husband
{{{Actually, Dale Husband, the community is growing at quite a rapid pace currently.}}}
Based on what evidence? Did the worldwide Baha’i community do a census to determine how many adherents it actually has?
{{{It may be that you are one of those who imagine that this Faith was created and is controlled by some organization.}}}
You do not consider the Universal House of Justice to be an organization? And I know the Baha’i Faith was created by an individual who called himself Baha’u’llah. I imagine nothing about it, I respond to what I actually see in it.
{{{“Weigh not the Book of God with such standards and sciences as are current amongst you, for the Book itself is the unerring balance established amongst men.”}}}
That is a direct quote from Baha’u’llah. The question is, what is the Book of God? The Quran? The Bible? Something else? The only certain source of truth we can ever have is through the universe that God supposedly made and that universe can only be studied through the “standards and sciences as are current amongst you”. Unlike religious dogmas that are not based on reality, science is a self-correcting process because it depends on reality for its content. At least you attempt to make some sort of coherent argument, unlike some other Baha’is. And yet….
{{{I just don’t understand why you don’t just walk away and get on with your life. Join a church or a synagogue. Find a girl. Get drunk.}}}
Telling me to shut up because what I say makes you uncomfortable is ironic. No one forced you to look at my video or comment on it, so you are a hypocrite. I am already a member of the Unitarian Universalist Association. And what could my drinking alcohol (I do not) or having a wife or girlfriend (I am single) have to do with any of this? How stupid can you be….or do you think most of the readers of your comments are? FAIL!
Jim Murray
Well, we’re a little testy, aren’t we? And well versed in the quote-and-dissect-technique so well-loved by hairsplitters everywhere. Unfortunately, you pretty well missed the meaning of most of what I said. I was going on the fact that you claim to have once been a Baha’i. Now I see that you were as much a Baha’i as I am a neurosurgeon. I will respond to one thing, though. I didn’t tell you to shut up because it makes me feel uncomfortable. Unlike yourself, I know who Baha’u’llah is, and I am content with what He has revealed. Nothing of what you have said is new to me, the internet is full of rants by petulant “ex-Baha’is” who deluded themselves and now want to blame others. Go ahead, shout it from the rooftops. The Faith can protect itself from more than you have. The sad fact is, the only ones who are listening are those like yourself, who are unwilling or unable to see the truth in the teachings of the Faith. I’m wondering, though, do you also go online and bitch about all of your ex-girlfriends and how they done you wrong? Or have you learned to move on, at least sometimes?
Dale Husband
Actually, you know nothing about Baha’u’llah and other historical figures of the Baha’i Faith except what was written about them in official Baha’i propaganda. The Baha’i Administrative Order is notorious for its total thought control and censorship, which makes the supposed Baha’i principle of Independent Investigation of Truth a lie. Likewise, Christians only know about Jesus what was written in the Gospels. And Jews only know of their Hebrew ancestors what was written in the Old Testament. You know the idea of the winners getting to write histories of past disputes to favor them? You assume you already have the truth and that all others, including me, must be wrong. That’s arrogance. How can you expect to win others to your Faith when most Christians, Muslims, Jews, and other religious members tend to be just as dogmatic and stubborn as you?
{{{Now I see that you were as much a Baha’i as I am a neurosurgeon.}}}
Your sarcasm is disgraceful and you are using the “no true Scotsman” fallacy. If nothing would make you decide the Baha’i Faith is not worth following, then that means truth and ethical integrity are nothing to you, and therefore, no one should ever take you seriously again.
{{{ I’m wondering, though, do you also go online and bitch about all of your ex-girlfriends and how they done you wrong?}}}
Making such a disgusting personal attack AGAIN is enough to discredit you forever, Jim Murray. Therefore I will ban you from any further comments on my channel. And thank you for giving me yet another example of why I am so glad to no longer be a part of your unworthy cult and why it must ultimately be brought down to ruin. We humans simply must do better than this. Better than YOU!

You know what, maybe I was indeed never a very good Baha’i after all. Because I know I was not nearly as arrogant, insulting, and abusive to others as Jim Murray was to me. You simply CANNOT have an honest and productive dialogue with such people who have no regard for actual facts and instead focus on personalities like mine! That is called the ad hominem fallacy. Thus, Murray is just like Rob Jenkins, who I fought with two years ago. They could be cell mates in hell.

One thought on “My battle with a Haifan Baha’i on YouTube”

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